Bad Diesel Fuel from Pilot

[fagnaml]

Let me the "Refining Guy" provide some facts about the ULSD we all purchase at the pump that my company and other oil majors produce. All ULSD is considered a "fungible" product meaning all Refineries produce diesel. "Fungibility" means diesel from any Refinery can and does end up at your favorite pump as an diesel engine doesn't care which Refinery made the diesel as long as it meets the following specifications.

1) Cetane Index = 40 minimum

2) Max sulfur content = 15 ppm by weight

3) Typically contains up to 5 volume% renewable or bio diesel to meet EPA regulations -- these diesel pumps will have a "Green" colored ULSD label.

4) ULSD can contain 6-20 volume % renewable or bio diesel depending on individual state requirement (i.e. think West Coast states) or good economics of using more renewable/bio diesel. Pumps selling diesel containing 6-20% renewable / bio diesel must have B10, B15, B20 labels. No diesel is sold at pumps with greater than 20% renewable/bio diesel content and 20% content is the maximum allowed by Cummins, Caterpillar, Detroit, Ford, GM and other diesel engine manufacturers.

5) Sediment & Water Content Diesel = Less than 0.05 % by volume. Diesel is "dried" and filtered to remove all free-water and some saturated water and remove particulates before shipment on pipelines and is dried/filtered again before loading into tank trucks that deliver the diesel to truck stops, service stations, etc.

6) The only additives typically in ULSD are corrosion inhibitors and conductivity improver. ExxonMobil is the only company adding detergent, lubricity, etc. additives to the diesel they sell at their branded pumps.

With exceptions for the West Coast states, "ULSD is ULSD" across the country per the specifications noted above. The only realistic contaminant entering a diesel storage tank at a truck stop is if the an underground storage tank had a hole on the top of the tank and a ground water level high enough for water to leak into the tank. Water contamination in a truck stop tank is very, very unlikely as tanks are manufactured from plastics/resins and have double containment to meet EPA regulations.

For reference, here are diesel (and gasoline) specifications for the Colonial Pipeline system that transports products from Houston to New York Harbor and all locations in between --> https://colpipe.s3-us-west-1.amazona...20190723054805

Other major products pipeline across the country (Magellan, KinderMorgan, Explorer, etc.) have essentially the same specifications which are set by engine manufacturers. I hope you find this info helpful.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by fagnaml

I hope you find this info helpful.

Actually, I did. Thanks.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by fagnaml

Let me the "Refining Guy" provide some facts about the ULSD we all purchase at the pump that my company and other oil majors produce.
{snip}

For reference, here are diesel (and gasoline) specifications for the Colonial Pipeline system that transports products from Houston to New York Harbor and all locations in between --> https://colpipe.s3-us-west-1.amazona...20190723054805

Other major products pipeline across the country (Magellan, KinderMorgan, Explorer, etc.) have essentially the same specifications which are set by engine manufacturers. I hope you find this info helpful.

It was helpful and informative. The link for Colonial's product specs... part of it went right over my head but the parts I understood....


Thank you for the well written and documented reply.

[fagnaml]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Today's ultra-low sulfur diesel/ULSD must have a lubricity additive mixed in. otherwise a diesel engine has a very short lifespan.

Before ULSD was introduced over ten years ago, engine manufacturers knew they would need to re-design engines (valves, injectors, fuel pump, etc.) to be able to use lower lubricity ULSD fuel (sulfur compounds in high sulfur diesel provided good wear protection for softer metal valves, injectors, etc.).


Owners of pre-2007 diesel engines should use a detergent/lubricity additive at every fill-up. Personally I use Power Services' Diesel Kleen (in the gray bottle) most months out of the year --> https://www.amazon.com/Power-Service...974612&sr=8-32

[engine103]

Great information, thank you. I've been a true believer of Diesel Service products. I use Bio Kleen, Cetane Boost as well as Diesel Kleen. Two years ago, I had to use Diesel Service 911, amazing product!

[BSHGTO]

Originally Posted by MingusPirate

We will not purchase fuel from Flying J, T/A, or Pilot as we get half the fuel mileage than from Costco, Chevron, or Shell. Even Kroger/Fry's is better.

[B]???????

[DandyDon]

I got a bad tank of diesel in my old motor home. Fuel filters did not solve the problem. Had to have the tank removed, dumped and cleaned and all the lines cleaned out, to the tune of $2500. It was at a small, independent station out in the middle of nowhere. I now only fill up at the truckstops like Loves, Pilot etc. I suppose you can get a bad tank anywhere but I'll take my chances somewhere that turns over a lot of fuel.

[joesesto]

Originally Posted by KanzKran

Actually, I did. Thanks.

Me too, but I'm a West Coaster and unless my vision is changing, I've only seen a B-rating outside the Coastal states. I try to always have a 50+ mile reserve for other reasons, but thanks to you I now have a new one.

[mike5511]

Originally Posted by Sherpa Vern

The web sites for Love's and Pilot will show if they have Bio fuel and at what blend percentage. If not stated, you can call the stations to find out what they are pumping. Cummins did not build engines for bio fuel until those manufactured in 2002 or later, and then only for B7. Love's across Texas are pumping B18.

When I left Texarkana at the end of December, these were my fuel stops headed West that had Diesel #2 without bio fuel. I dropped down to I-10 west of Fort Worth.

Valliant, OK - Loves #648
Cisco, TX - Flying J #551
Las Cruces, NM - Loves #259
Lordsburg, NM - Loves #276
Benson, AZ - Loves #460
Quartzsite, AZ - Pilot #328

I don't think I'll be down on I10 anytime soon, but that is good to know. From what I've learned reading this thread I'm thinking all diesel will have at least 5% bio-diesel. I'm wondering if it is higher than that, that it will stated on the pump? I know there is no mention of any on the pumps I buy at around home. And I know that I have stopped and fueled at some stations on trips without labels but been told they had 5% bio diesel when I inquired.

[mike5511]

Originally Posted by fagnaml

Let me the "Refining Guy" provide some facts about the ULSD we all purchase at the pump that my company and other oil majors produce. All ULSD is considered a "fungible" product meaning all Refineries produce diesel. "Fungibility" means diesel from any Refinery can and does end up at your favorite pump as an diesel engine doesn't care which Refinery made the diesel as long as it meets the following specifications.

1) Cetane Index = 40 minimum

2) Max sulfur content = 15 ppm by weight

3) Typically contains up to 5 volume% renewable or bio diesel to meet EPA regulations -- these diesel pumps will have a "Green" colored ULSD label.

4) ULSD can contain 6-20 volume % renewable or bio diesel depending on individual state requirement (i.e. think West Coast states) or good economics of using more renewable/bio diesel. Pumps selling diesel containing 6-20% renewable / bio diesel must have B10, B15, B20 labels. No diesel is sold at pumps with greater than 20% renewable/bio diesel content and 20% content is the maximum allowed by Cummins, Caterpillar, Detroit, Ford, GM and other diesel engine manufacturers.

5) Sediment & Water Content Diesel = Less than 0.05 % by volume. Diesel is "dried" and filtered to remove all free-water and some saturated water and remove particulates before shipment on pipelines and is dried/filtered again before loading into tank trucks that deliver the diesel to truck stops, service stations, etc.

6) The only additives typically in ULSD are corrosion inhibitors and conductivity improver. ExxonMobil is the only company adding detergent, lubricity, etc. additives to the diesel they sell at their branded pumps.

With exceptions for the West Coast states, "ULSD is ULSD" across the country per the specifications noted above. The only realistic contaminant entering a diesel storage tank at a truck stop is if the an underground storage tank had a hole on the top of the tank and a ground water level high enough for water to leak into the tank. Water contamination in a truck stop tank is very, very unlikely as tanks are manufactured from plastics/resins and have double containment to meet EPA regulations.

For reference, here are diesel (and gasoline) specifications for the Colonial Pipeline system that transports products from Houston to New York Harbor and all locations in between --> https://colpipe.s3-us-west-1.amazona...20190723054805

Other major products pipeline across the country (Magellan, KinderMorgan, Explorer, etc.) have essentially the same specifications which are set by engine manufacturers. I hope you find this info helpful.

I appreciate your posts on this!! Very informative!

[rogerray45]

Originally Posted by MingusPirate

We will not purchase fuel from Flying J, T/A, or Pilot as we get half the fuel mileage than from Costco, Chevron, or Shell. Even Kroger/Fry's is better.

If you believe that, I have some OCEAN front property in AZ that I would like to sell you

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by joesesto

Me too, but I'm a West Coaster and unless my vision is changing, I've only seen a B-rating outside the Coastal states

Originally Posted by mike5511

From what I've learned reading this thread I'm thinking all diesel will have at least 5% bio-diesel. I'm wondering if it is higher than that, that it will stated on the pump? I know there is no mention of any on the pumps I buy at around home. And I know that I have stopped and fueled at some stations on trips without labels but been told they had 5% bio diesel when I inquired.

Up to and including 5% is not required to be labeled as containing biodiesel. None of the pumps anywhere around here show a biodiesel content label, but when I travel south, I start seeing them. Texas especially, if memory serves, though I've only encountered B20 once so far.

I don't think non-labeled pumps, other than the ULSD label, are actually required to have a full 5%, but AFAIK, there is some bio content in all ULSD fuel these days per federal law, and it's good for lubricity so that's always a good thing and may be the main reason its added.

[MingusPirate]

Originally Posted by rogerray45

If you believe that, I have some OCEAN front property in AZ that I would like to sell you

I live in Arizona. And we have the mileage data from both the fuel mileage on our rig mileage indicator, and then the divide miles by gallons. We get 12 to 14 mpg with Chevron, Costco, and Shell consistently. We get 6 to 8 mpg with T/A, Flying J, and Pilot. No belief, just hard data. So snotty comments do not change me from believing data from two sources. Maybe you should try to measure your mileage.

[HJLowell]

Give it up Mingus KO
Your story changes evertime you post.

Your way over your head on this thread.