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Old 02-27-2017, 09:57 AM   #43
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we put beads in all six new hankooks, let me say
SMOOTH is a great word,
have about 2500 on them now and still no issues
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post

I'm not a big fan of balancing beads. I had a bad experience with them a while back.

I know how a single wheel/tire combination might use the beads to find the correct spot to counter balance the heavy spot on the tire. Well, I can guess how it works but, really not sure.
Having a "bad experience" due to improper installation from some jamoke who has no clue doesn't make them "not work".

Here is a video which shows exactly how they work. Basically similar to how Centramatics work. Dyna Beads are just cheaper.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

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Old 02-28-2017, 04:20 AM   #45
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They work great . . .

. . . as a profit center for the tire dealership.

There's one born every minute.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:32 AM   #46
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Let it go, man, and go to your happy place!

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Old 02-28-2017, 06:56 AM   #47
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I've seen, taken part, in the balance bead discussion in other forums, and it always boils down to:

A. Several people who use then and say they work.
B. Several people who don't use them and never will because they know they don't work.
C. A few people who have used them, and they just didn't work out.

I'm in C. I think they work most of the time and have proven with my garage experiment that they can work. But on my one experience where they didn't, it was kind of a pain in the rear. I went back to stick-on weights. But that was on motorcycles, so maybe it doesn't even count.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:42 AM   #48
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I understand how they work and should work every time. I rotated my tags to the front. Had to dismount them and swap wheels due to position of the dish of the wheel. The shop put the beads in. I found that they would almost get smooth, but would get worse and try to get smooth again. Took it back and had them vacuumed out and spun balanced. They have been smooth ever since. I also tried them in the 40" tires on my off road Jeep. I tried different amounts trying to get a smooth ride at 60 mph. They would get almost smooth until I went around a curve and the vibration would start until they almost rebalanced themselves. I removed the beads and found a truck shop that could balance them. Now it's smooth at all speeds. A lot of people have success with them, but that has not been my experience.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:49 AM   #49
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Richard, you just can't please everybody!
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:30 PM   #50
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"DWRichard".....There are some battles you should take on and some you should let go. Balancing beads have been used for years and are one of the best ways to balance RV tires. This is not a conversation about fuel additives where the value can't be measured. This a conversation about balancing wheels where the value of the beads has been proven by SIMPLY driving the coach.

Someone said they can clump and clog the valve stems. To me, this is really just old information that is being regurgitated. Yes, in their infancy, they had issues, but those issues have been resolved. I installed and balanced tires for a living in my younger days. I was a proponent of spin balancing tires on cars. I always watch the tire guy spin balance my tires and make sure they're done perfectly. With that said, spin balancing is not the best method for large RV tires, unless you're willing to pay to have them rebalanced every 10K or so. Someone mentioned that truckers don't use the beads. I'm betting they use beads or Centramatics on the front tires, but I'm sure they don't spend much time or money balancing the other tires because they go through them so fast.

"FIRE UP"....finally to your question. I know on the Centramatics, they use only one balancer between the duals. That one balancer, balances both duals and rims from the center position between the two wheels. My uneducated guess is that the balancing beads do something similar. I imagine they work together as one to balance the entire dual assembly.

Lastly, I'm a fan of Centramatics. They're expensive, so they're not for everyone. They rebalance the tires every time you drive. If you have a new coach and plan on keeping it through a couple sets of tires, they're worth it.
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:05 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr4Film View Post

Let it go, man, and go to your happy place!

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Why, when I can counter your ignorance and incorrect information on this subject so easily? From the TVRN tire expert:

"Most places keep the balancing sand and magic balancing beads right next to the snake oil. For your information there is not one tire manufacturer that endorses the use of those kinds of products. Run away from that dealer quickly and find someone with a Hunter Force Balancer and get the job done right. By the way, dealers make a fortune on products like that because it takes no skill, training or time to throw a bag of sand in your tires." And:

"What most people don't realize is that gimmicks like these don't actually balance a tire, all they do is mask or minimize a vertical vibration. They don't prevent erratic wear and they will not work if the tire is out of spec laterally.
Think about it, all the tech does is throw 16 oz of powder or beads in your tire. How does he know your tire needs exactly 16 oz. to bring it into balance? The principal is essentially the same as the reason that it doesn't help to balance a dual assembly. The heavier the tire the less likely it is to vibrate.
When I had new steer tires installed last year they were balanced on a Hunter Match Force machine. One tire needed 2 oz. of weight the other zero. I seriously doubt that I would have felt a vibration even if I didn't balance them. The Hunter machine also checks for lateral variances which can also cause a vibration. None of this is done when powder or other material is installed. They simply toss the bag in and hope the extra weight minimizes problems.
Several years ago one of my dealers mentioned that he rarely received vibration complaints from unbalanced Chinese tires even though those tires took excessive weights when they were balanced. I told him it was because Chinese tires weighed much more than tires like Michelin or other premium brands so they absorbed vibration better. Now that doesn't mean they were better tires. Weight causes a harder ride, higher fuel consumption and is more susceptible to erratic wear. The same is true for magic dust.
Finally, to Larry's point, today's tires and wheels are made to very demanding specs and they are both x-rayed and checked for variances prior to leaving the plant. You may not even need to balance your tires and you certainly don't need the amount of weight of a bag of dust put in them.
Remember, next to Road Hazard Warranty, balancing dust is the second most profitable item on most dealer's P&L."

[mic drop]
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:37 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
"DWRichard".....There are some battles you should take on and some you should let go. Balancing beads have been used for years and are one of the best ways to balance RV tires. This is not a conversation about fuel additives where the value can't be measured. This a conversation about balancing wheels where the value of the beads has been proven by SIMPLY driving the coach.

Someone said they can clump and clog the valve stems. To me, this is really just old information that is being regurgitated. Yes, in their infancy, they had issues, but those issues have been resolved. I installed and balanced tires for a living in my younger days. I was a proponent of spin balancing tires on cars. I always watch the tire guy spin balance my tires and make sure they're done perfectly. With that said, spin balancing is not the best method for large RV tires, unless you're willing to pay to have them rebalanced every 10K or so. Someone mentioned that truckers don't use the beads. I'm betting they use beads or Centramatics on the front tires, but I'm sure they don't spend much time or money balancing the other tires because they go through them so fast.

"FIRE UP"....finally to your question. I know on the Centramatics, they use only one balancer between the duals. That one balancer, balances both duals and rims from the center position between the two wheels. My uneducated guess is that the balancing beads do something similar. I imagine they work together as one to balance the entire dual assembly.

Lastly, I'm a fan of Centramatics. They're expensive, so they're not for everyone. They rebalance the tires every time you drive. If you have a new coach and plan on keeping it through a couple sets of tires, they're worth it.
Hey Don,
I always appreciate your input on my subjects. Let me say this. DR4 commented on the fact that the person who installed the bags in my previous coaches tires was clueless and that's why they didn't work. Well, the person did it the same way he'd done it for quite a few other motor homes before mine and, they (the bags) apparently disintegrated like they're supposed to and I'm assuming they (the owners of those coaches) were driving down the road happy.
For some reason, mine did NOT DISSOLVE like they were supposed to and caused the continuous imbalance they did. So, I had them removed. That was my one and only experience with any form of balancing a tire, other than spin balancing and, it was not a good experience.

And, as this thread progresses and, is answered to or contributions are added, it is apparent that I'm not the only one who's opinion about balancing beads or "powder" is not the right answer for at least RV tires. But, it also appears that there is a large amount of RVers that are apparently happy with the use of beads.

To me, this is just like many other things in life. Some things work for some, and for others, not so good. Short story. When I was younger, about a thousand decades ago, I'd travel with my parents on short vacations. We'd stop for rest in some cheesy little hotel. Being a mischievous little tyke that I was, I'd go wandering around trying to see what kind of trouble I could get into. Well, I walked next to some idling diesel trucks and looked those monsterous front wheels and tires. OBVIOUSLY I was a lot smaller back then so, they seem GINORMOUS to me at the time.

But, I saw something that was really ODD to me, even at that time in life. Attached to the lug nuts on many of the front wheels on those trucks, was a ring, made of some form of semi-clear plastic. Inside that ring, as some reddish fluid and, some steel balls. Hmmmmmm, what the heck are those????

Well, that was waaaaaaaaaaaay back then and this is now. So, your "Balance Masters" rotational balancing mechanisms have been out for a few decades. The design maybe has changed some but, the internal operation, is the exact same.

As for comments about "re-balancing" ever 10K or so, I'm not really sure that's the case. I've owned many cars, trucks, motor homes etc. and, have put many, many miles on them at a time, well over 40-50K on an original set of tires and never, ever re-balanced them because there was no need. The tires were smooth right to the end of their life. Sure, if you loose a chunk of tread, yeah, it's going to be out of balance instantly. But, that tire's going to show some high vibration which will cause one to do some inspection. If the tread chunk is determined to be deterimental to the remaining life of the tire and or, could cause an accident if left on the vehicle, it's shi..canned.

As for your help on answering my "two wheel balance" of duals, attached to the same hub, I guess your thoughts on theory of balance should work but, I'm not an expert on this kind of situation so I cannot dispute you or in reality, agree. It's not a big deal, just kind-a wondering. I'd bet about 98% of the RVers out there don't balance the rears anyway. I know I will when it comes time for tires.

I appreciate all who've taken the time to answer here. Lot's of good experience and thoughts. If you're happy with any other form of balancing a M/H tire other than spinning, they by all means, hang in there with it.
Scott
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:40 PM   #53
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When my Goodyear G670's on the front of my Monaco went bad for the second time, I replaced them with Hankooks and tried the balancing beads (Goodyear G670's did not play well with the Roadmaster chassis and had constant "rivering" issues).

After a few minutes of driving and reaching highway speeds, I decided that the balancing beads sucked. A few starts and stops later, the bag apparently broke open and the balance was perfect.

I've owned a few motor homes and no matter how anal you are about caring for the tires, you'll always notice some alignment wear or cupping, before you can catch it. Even if there is just a slight cup or alignment change, it changes the balance of the tire/rim.

I think some are more sensitive to imbalance than others. I can feel it in the rear and anything in the front makes me crazy.....that's why I use the Centramatics. They will balance the tires out perfectly.
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:33 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
When my Goodyear G670's on the front of my Monaco went bad for the second time, I replaced them with Hankooks and tried the balancing beads (Goodyear G670's did not play well with the Roadmaster chassis and had constant "rivering" issues).

After a few minutes of driving and reaching highway speeds, I decided that the balancing beads sucked. A few starts and stops later, the bag apparently broke open and the balance was perfect.

I've owned a few motor homes and no matter how anal you are about caring for the tires, you'll always notice some alignment wear or cupping, before you can catch it. Even if there is just a slight cup or alignment change, it changes the balance of the tire/rim.

I think some are more sensitive to imbalance than others. I can feel it in the rear and anything in the front makes me crazy.....that's why I use the Centramatics. They will balance the tires out perfectly.
yep me to except the initial "bag break" was pretty quick, as in about 5 miles if that.

my goodyears started the rivering dance at 20k, and got worse and worse, so much i hated to drive 45 mph and would push through to a higher speed or drive slower to save my arms from wiggle wiggle.
as pricey as these rigs are, its worth the small cost
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:56 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
"DWRichard".....There are some battles you should take on and some you should let go. Balancing beads have been used for years and are one of the best ways to balance RV tires. This is not a conversation about fuel additives where the value can't be measured. This a conversation about balancing wheels where the value of the beads has been proven by SIMPLY driving the coach.

Someone said they can clump and clog the valve stems. To me, this is really just old information that is being regurgitated. Yes, in their infancy, they had issues, but those issues have been resolved. I installed and balanced tires for a living in my younger days. I was a proponent of spin balancing tires on cars. I always watch the tire guy spin balance my tires and make sure they're done perfectly. With that said, spin balancing is not the best method for large RV tires, unless you're willing to pay to have them rebalanced every 10K or so. Someone mentioned that truckers don't use the beads. I'm betting they use beads or Centramatics on the front tires, but I'm sure they don't spend much time or money balancing the other tires because they go through them so fast.

"FIRE UP"....finally to your question. I know on the Centramatics, they use only one balancer between the duals. That one balancer, balances both duals and rims from the center position between the two wheels. My uneducated guess is that the balancing beads do something similar. I imagine they work together as one to balance the entire dual assembly.

Lastly, I'm a fan of Centramatics. They're expensive, so they're not for everyone. They rebalance the tires every time you drive. If you have a new coach and plan on keeping it through a couple sets of tires, they're worth it.
For my 2 cents on balance beads and heavy trucks. I was a fleet manager for many years for a large trucking company. Up until 4 years ago when the shop and terminal were shut down.
Our procedure was to spin balance the steer tires. We tried the balance beads on 2 trucks and found they caused more problems than they corrected.
Our trucks ran in northern British Columbia
At our shop we had a tire man that had probably forgotten more about tires than most tire men know.
We did the tire repair/replacement and balancing for the fleet that came to our shop from 2 other major centers as well.
So in closing we did not recommend or use balance beads and we did not have to Reba lancet them every 20000 miles either.
They generally stayed in balance for the life of the tire.
We did not normally balance the drives but on occasions we did.
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