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Old 09-30-2021, 04:51 PM   #29
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I rode motorcycles for 40+ years and seldom "white lined", but on occasion, with traffic stopped, it was survival to continue riding. My older bikes were air cooled and when stopped in traffic for 10 or 15 minutes, engine damage was likely. I would ride the white line at 5-10 miles per hour and make an effort to make eye contact with each driver as I approached. If the driver was watching and acting aggressive, I'd wait, or slow down to 1 or 2 mph and proceed slowly. My attitude is we all share the road and each of us has an obligation to avoid creating situations where an accident is likely. In several states and throughout Europe driver are obligated to avoid accidents and the police can and do charge aggressive drivers with "failure to operate to avoid an accident". At sea, the rules are clear, you must do everything possible to avoid collisions and the rules of the road are very clear. You wish to be assertive and cause a collision, even though you have the right of way, you can and will be charged. When I learned to drive, I was taught to exercise good manners and avoid, if at all possible, causing another driver to deviate from their line or speed. In over a million miles on the highway in cars and trucks, and half a million miles on a motorcycle I learned to spot drivers who feel they own the road and will demand you avoid them, even if it is unsafe. They aren't hard to spot and when you seem them, just do whatever is necessary to get away from them. Eventually they'll get theirs and we'll call cheer.
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Old 09-30-2021, 04:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by IND2SLC View Post
Law enforcement veteran from Indiana, maybe I can explain. Police have "backed off" all over the country because traffic enforcement and traffic stops are incredibly unsafe now. Perhaps you'll get hit by a texting driver while standing outside the car you stopped, perhaps you'll get ambushed and shot, perhaps you'll never go home again. No matter what really happens, in media and public perception, it will be the officer's fault. For the amount they're paid coupled with the lack of support or outright resentment from elected officials and their own communities in many parts of the country, it's not at all worth risking being executed at the side of a highway during a stop just because they maybe wanted to tell someone their brake light is out. Far safer to let what bad will happen, happen and then sort out the wrongdoers later rather than be proactive and prevent such "bad things" pre-emptively. It's a losing situation for them no matter what, no matter where.
Thank you for your service. I don't blame police for backing off traffic stops. In addition to being dangerous, it seems a random stop of a minority leads to a claim of discrimination, even though you can't even see drivers behind the tinted windows.
Somehow we have to regain control of the roads. Cameras might be the only way to do it. Allow 10% over and everyone else gets a ticket by mail.
Just a thought.
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Old 09-30-2021, 04:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by IND2SLC View Post
Law enforcement veteran from Indiana, maybe I can explain. Police have "backed off" all over the country because traffic enforcement and traffic stops are incredibly unsafe now. Perhaps you'll get hit by a texting driver while standing outside the car you stopped, perhaps you'll get ambushed and shot, perhaps you'll never go home again.
[snip]
it's not at all worth risking being executed at the side of a highway during a stop just because they maybe wanted to tell someone their brake light is out. Far safer to let what bad will happen, happen and then sort out the wrongdoers later rather than be proactive and prevent such "bad things" pre-emptively. It's a losing situation for them no matter what, no matter where.
That's quite the persecution complex law enforcement seems to have going on. In 2019, 6 cops were killed while conducting routine traffic stops. In 2020, 120 people were killed when cops stopped them for a routine traffic stop. So according to the actual numbers, routine traffic stops are 20x more dangerous for civilians than for cops.

And it's kind of hard to take police claims about concern for their safety seriously when COVID has killed more active-duty cops than all other causes combined, and yet cops are notoriously opposing pandemic-related safety measures like masks and vaccination. It's kind of like it's not really about the safety...

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...e-line-of-duty

https://policeviolencereport.org
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:07 PM   #32
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I personally can’t stand motorcycles. I also can’t stand when traffic is stopped and they run down the middle inches from other stopped cars. If I see them I always move over to take up their path. They should wait like everyone else. If one ends up in the back of my truck or rv so be it. ****** to say that, but I have had it with the minorities (most follow the rule, small minority doesn’t) behavior on those two wheel death traps.

My cousin cut one off in stopped traffic on 95 last year. He saw him splitting the stopped cars and got his F350 right in the gap and closed it up. The motorcycle slammed into the back of him doing what we think was 25-30mph. It was in the news for almost a week and he ultimately got aquittted of mv negligence and failure to stay in marked lane. Best part was when the judge gave his decision he said if more people did what he did, the motor bikers would learn fast and follow the rules of the road.

The accident made the paper for a day. The judges decision and his wording made the news for almost a week.
Can you post a link to the news story? (If it actually exists).
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:38 PM   #33
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I have have "discussions" for years with my fellow motorcyclists about lane splitting. Yes, it does come down self entitlement of the rider. I still ride and many are no longer living, so I know the ramifications of making choices.


I have never felt pressured to drive faster than I feel comfortable. I typically tow a trailer with 65 mph rated tires and will not exceed that speed except for a quick pass of slower driver. I will typically drive the right lane unless there is another lane that is better matched to my speed (going with the flow).


I do see aggressiveness on the roads and have a dash cam that captures all of this if I cannot react quickly enough to their actions. The video not only records GPS coordinates but also my speed so there is never a question where this took place or my velocity.


I do wonder if I was given X amount of time remaining to live whether I would do my part on taking out the aggressors on the road, but I currently enjoy life too much to engage them and hope their own actions reduce their lifespan and not of anyone else.
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:50 PM   #34
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I personally canít stand motorcycles. I also canít stand when traffic is stopped and they run down the middle inches from other stopped cars. If I see them I always move over to take up their path. They should wait like everyone else. If one ends up in the back of my truck or rv so be it. ****** to say that, but I have had it with the minorities (most follow the rule, small minority doesnít) behavior on those two wheel death traps.

My cousin cut one off in stopped traffic on 95 last year. He saw him splitting the stopped cars and got his F350 right in the gap and closed it up. The motorcycle slammed into the back of him doing what we think was 25-30mph. It was in the news for almost a week and he ultimately got aquittted of mv negligence and failure to stay in marked lane. Best part was when the judge gave his decision he said if more people did what he did, the motor bikers would learn fast and follow the rules of the road.

The accident made the paper for a day. The judges decision and his wording made the news for almost a week.
Your attitude is a perfect example of the elements of 'road rage'. Always remember, that at one point of any dispute involved at least TWO people. YOU are the one that feels you are the loser, victim, in any situation but at one point was the instigator.
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:06 PM   #35
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Reading some of these comments makes one realize how much some let others control them. So what if a motorcycle split lanes in stopped traffic where it is legal. If someone gets upset over another person doing a legal act, who is the one with the problems? How much calmer would you be if you just let it go?
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:09 PM   #36
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As I get older I seem to think more and act less, I myself have been a motorcycle rider for many years and ridden different types of motorcycles during my life from crouch rockets to the big V Twins so I understand the enjoyment the thrills and the dangers in riding. Most of these lane spitters are mostly young men thinking they are the best in what they do on a bike and really donít think of the bad consequences in what theyíre doing or what could happen. I donít agree in what they do, I want these riders to go home to their moms, dads, wife, kids and would never try to do anything to possibly hurt or worse kill someone. I know it might be irritating thinking these riders are cutting in line but the truth is they will most likely long gone by the time the light changes.
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:10 PM   #37
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There are city/ state laws in some states that allow motorcycles to move between cars in slow/ stopped traffic... not MY state, so unsure of details... but believe also very common by law in Europe?
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:12 PM   #38
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With the lower numbers of officers available to enforce the laws on our roadways, they are going to get more deadly. Until we properly fund our law enforcement and make the penalties serious this carnage will only get worse. It's up to us to drive defensively and stay alert. Happy Camping.
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:18 PM   #39
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Yep, some of those self-appointed enforcers of traffic laws (as they interpret them) can be some of the most dangerous people on the road.

Local enforcement here seems to indeed become pretty lax. People are driving all sorts of unsafe appearing vehicles. No body parts or even lights on the front, for one. Others not even bothering to pretend they have license plates. All sorts of off-road unlicensed and uninsured vehicles back and forth too. It's getting fairly wild.
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpozzuoli View Post
I personally canít stand motorcycles. I also canít stand when traffic is stopped and they run down the middle inches from other stopped cars. If I see them I always move over to take up their path. They should wait like everyone else. If one ends up in the back of my truck or rv so be it. ****** to say that, but I have had it with the minorities (most follow the rule, small minority doesnít) behavior on those two wheel death traps.

My cousin cut one off in stopped traffic on 95 last year. He saw him splitting the stopped cars and got his F350 right in the gap and closed it up. The motorcycle slammed into the back of him doing what we think was 25-30mph. It was in the news for almost a week and he ultimately got aquittted of mv negligence and failure to stay in marked lane. Best part was when the judge gave his decision he said if more people did what he did, the motor bikers would learn fast and follow the rules of the road.

The accident made the paper for a day. The judges decision and his wording made the news for almost a week.

I agree about roads being worse. The infrastructure of our country is starting to look third world. I drive slowly and cautiously in my 30,000+Pound Diesel Pusher. (60ish).I Let em all pass me. On 2 lane roads I pull over when safe if cars backing up behind me.
My wife and I also ride motorcycles. I am appalled at your attitude. Lane Splitting is legal in many states. I DO NOT do it. It is dangerous. But to purposely pull out in front of a motorcycle is at best belligerent and at worseÖ..murder. Who made you or anyone judge jury and executioner?
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:19 PM   #41
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I ride and I have a 38' Georgetown. What if your "cousin" killed that guy on the bike? Is it worth all that because you don't like him riding between lanes? You friend have no business in an RV and your ideals should have your ass in jail. Did you tell the judge you guys tried to kill the biker for splitting lanes, legal in CA and NY?

Well said Dave, some people think everyone needs to adhere to behavior that they think others should abide by.
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:54 PM   #42
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The sky is falling in! The sky is falling in! We (you) are aging and perception is moving into the right lane. Relax, nothing has changed outside of more of us sharing the same space. And motorcycles, yes, watch out for them - double points!
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