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Old 04-24-2021, 10:30 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
Most companies will finance a coach up to 10 years old.
The main RV finance companies are Good Sam, Bank of the West, and SunTrust Bank.
If a coach is over 10 years old, some folks will use a home equity loan to finance it. Using this method the rates are lower.
Thanks Vito as I have access to a ton of equity in my houses if we wanted. I am also looking into an investment product where I can borrow up to 75% of my investment at just over 1.0%. If the investments are making over 6%, my money is still making 5% instead of nothing. This probably would not cover depreciation on a 4-5 year coach, but might very well cover depreciation on a 15 year old coach. Love to hear others thoughts. We will have access to a lot of cash through our primary home sale or my pension in the next few years. Hoping to minimize risk of a large loss while enjoying RVíing. I am worried we plan to RV 7 months a year for at least 5 years and then get out there and change our minds at some point. I am not too worried on the variable repair costs as I think I can mitigate most by proper RV selection and full qualified inspection.

We just looked yesterday at two 2012 Tiffan Pheatons in FL, and was really impressed with the condition inside of both. Really didnít feel like you were losing much to the brand new coaches at double the price.
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Old 04-24-2021, 10:56 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Traveler2162 View Post
Not sure if drums have more stopping power. When I am behind tractor trailers sometimes I see a sign on the trailer.

Warning. Trailer has disc brakes. Stopping distance reduced

That would indicate more stopping power.
In 2016 I had the opportunity to go to the Paccar proving grounds in Mount Vernon Wa. They have a test track on their 260 acre facility. We drove two new model Peterbilt 579 combos at 80,000lb. One with Bendix air discs with ABS all the way around and one with straight standard drums all the way around.
We did panic stops from 80mph to zero. The air discs out performed the drums by nearly 200' cold and about 250' by the third stop. That convinced us to actually amend our purchasing contract with Peterbilt to include air disc as standard. Yes, disc brakes are advantageous. Automotive engineers figured that out in about 1968. Why it took the trucking industry so long is a mystery, but cost was probably the driving factor. Drum brakes on a coach are fine, but still require maintenance such as regular slack adjuster checks, occasional s cam lubrication and drum heat checking.
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Old 04-24-2021, 11:00 AM   #87
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Newmar has been mentioned but not the older Entegras which might fit your price range. Both are well built and insulated. They actually post insulation R values where most others don't....
Joe & Ro
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Old 04-24-2021, 12:53 PM   #88
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We are about one year ahead of you; finally pulled the trigger on a 2005 Newmar Dutch Star M4023 in December. As we developed criteria, mid-2000's rose to the top due to being "new enough" for our desires, the Pre-DEF/DPF considerations others have mentioned, slide technology that had evolved in terms of reliability and quantity installed and acceptable price range. Mid to high end coaches became the target, with Monaco, Newmar and American Coach being the focus as we proceeded.

I still have "non-buyers remorse" for passing on a Detroit 60 powered 2006 Monaco Signature with a TAG. It was maintained with an open wallet; owner aged out of Rving. Honestly, I was intimidated by it's niceness and complexity. Plus it was outside the top of our price range. If I had stretched the finances to make it happen, I'm afraid I would have felt too constrained to invest in upgrades and maintenance at the needed level. If you're willing to spend $100-$140K, a mid-2000's Signature would be hard to beat. It was beautiful and far superior to what I had ever envisioned myself rolling down the road in. But I passed the gut check; walking away when I didn't feel warm and fuzzy. Had the same experience with some lessor coaches that looked good but lacked maintenance history.

So lessen #1 I'd say is don't be hesitant to bail out if you're not comfortable, and to a certain extent you'll know when it feels right, especially if you've been involved with searching for some time. We got bored and frustrated toward the end, especially with a lot of pandemic-craziness reducing time on market and sweeping away potential deals. We might have jumped into a frustration-buy, but lucked out and had the right rig fall into our lap when we were considering a hiatus from the search. Don't jump just because you are tired of the search!

The Dutch Star came to market at the right price and time and is very nice ... I honestly should not give a second thought to the Signature we didn't buy. I know I'd be a slave to it, because I'm a slave to the less complex Dutch Star. Most of my work is needed fixes and upgrades that I expect to accomplish the bulk of in the first year. From then on, it will always be as second job to keep the coach up to date on maintenance and desired features, but that's the nature of the beast. That's lesson #2. A DP coach is work and expense compared to a towable. Not really a lesson, as we had anticipated this fact. So far, the burden is worthwhile.

While that 515 hp Detroit 60 would have been nice, I think the Cummins ISL 370 we ended up falls in the sweet spot of RV propulsion (1250 lb.-ft. of torque). It is a common rail injection system, has no diesel particulate filter or urea injection, which in my view, means less stuff to go wrong and excellent power and efficiency. So far, we are getting 9 mpg without a toad in the mountain west, but I'm driving like a grandpa, setting cruise control at 62 usually - it doesn't flinch at mountain grades. Adding a 5000 lb. Toyota to the load soon, so I'm expecting 7.5 mpg, which is what the PO said he achieved with a 4 door Wrangler. Our chassis is a Spartan Mountain Master with IFS. With new Michelins and Centramatic balancers (added yesterday), this coach drives like a dream.

Others have mentioned financing limitations at 10 years. We have three banks and credit unions and found this to be an issue with only one. The institution we went with would finance up to 90% of book value with a condition check (photos at closing, as it turned out). We threw down more cash anyhow, so the financing worked well in our case.

We didn't hunt at dealers really. Our choice, and I wouldn't advise one way or the other, except that in Las Vegas, there were virtually zero Class As in used stock that met our wishes. To prescreen on the phone, I found that most salesman were devoid of knowledge regarding details of their inventory (i.e. "Q: What engine? A: It's the big upgraded diesel, runs sweet!). Dealers ended up being a waste of time for us. We must have made contact with private sellers at least 50 times in a 10 month search. Went out of town twice and viewed two rigs each time. Did an in-person viewing of about a dozen coaches in-town or within a two hour drive. We also had surrogates look at three coaches far away. We saw some junk, and saw some pride in ownership. You simply don't know until you lay eyes on it. At some point in the journey, we determined remote buying was too risky, except with a trusted third party to inspect.

After a thorough shake down of the Dutch Star by me, we had an RVIA inspector accomplish a deep pre-purchase inspection, including fluid samples from the engine, generator and transmission. At that point it was a "buy," barring any major discoveries from the inspection - so the $1600 investment seemed to make sense. I will say, that after five months of ownership and learning, I probably could have done the inspection myself. But it was good insurance at the time.

In summary, I'd say look, look and look some more. You'll get a sense for quality and care. Cabinets were my go-to for an initial sense of build quality. We picked up a quality built coach with 65,000 miles for about one-quarter of the new invoice. Very happy with the value and comfort we obtained. Many adventures lie ahead!

Best of luck with your search.
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Old 04-24-2021, 04:14 PM   #89
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Best used DP for the money ?

A rented one that someone else finances 😂

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Old 04-25-2021, 09:01 AM   #90
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If you want bunk beds find a model that can be modified. We purchased our 1st DP in '98 and modified it to fit dog crates and subsequently have modified every purchase since then. Dog show exhibitors get very creative in their modifications. Ability to adapt to our needs is the 1st criteria in the selection process. Think outside the box.
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:06 AM   #91
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RVTrader has an option to use keywords.

Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2021, 10:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by gryhester View Post
2008, I believe it was the first year for DEF. The bugs weren't worked out. I remember reading posts on DEF problems.

Gary 05 AMB DST

My 2008 is def free!
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Traveler2162 View Post
What other maintenance is really required? Serious question.
I have a spreadsheet with the maintenance required for my coach. Others will be similar. There are too many items to list here. If you privately send me your email address, I will send you the spreadsheet.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:43 PM   #94
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I kinda think the DEF started on the buses in 2010. MOMCAT
Tom and Linda ...'07 Allegro Bus /400 ISL...Jeep TJ Toad...having GOODTIMES
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:26 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by jrs View Post
Newmar has been mentioned but not the older Entegras which might fit your price range. Both are well built and insulated. They actually post insulation R values where most others don't....
But don't the Newmar's come with TPO roof?
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:19 AM   #96
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Where are the holes for the slide outs? Prevost converters were the last to put slide outs in as the chassis wasn’t designed for them.
I’ll take one that was designed with the holes instead of just cutting the holes into the sides.
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Old 05-13-2021, 12:12 PM   #97
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What about these National RV's?
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Old 05-13-2021, 01:11 PM   #98
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I drove past this one the other day and thought it looked like a really good deal. Doesn't appear to be listed on the major RV trading sites so may be priced "fairly" for a dealer!
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