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Old 05-08-2020, 10:59 PM   #1
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BlueFire in a 2005 era Class A ??

My coach is a 2005 43' Newmar Mountain Aire DP. I would think that information gathered here is just as well suited for other manufactures of that era. I'm not a real tech guy, so I'd like to keep the information simple. Sort of a BlueFire For Dummies. I'll be the dummy. I don't care how the electrons get there, what format they need to be in, where the electrons come from, etc. This is about what information can be displayed and how you do it. Hopefully some of you more knowledgeable guys will play along and participate, and many more guys besides me can learn as well.


As for me, my coach has the following gauges, and they all work well:

Speedometer - Tach - Fuel Quantity - Engine Oil Pressure - Engine Coolant Temp - Transmission Temp - Voltmeter - Front Air Pressure - Rear Air Pressure.


Since they all work well, I see no reason nor desire to duplicate them on the BlueFire tablet. One speedo and tach is enough for me. I'm more interested in information that I'm not seeing. Things that immediately come to mind that I'd be interested in are:


- Trip/Fuel computer functions (gallons used, miles to empty, instant and average MPG, etc)


- Generator functions (volts, amps, temp, oil pressure, etc)


- Outside temp


- Turbo boost pressure


- Cruise control info


- Check engine codes (?) can it do this?


- Transmission info (gear currently in, torque, etc)



What am I missing?





My main question is, what can the app display, and what information can my coach supply to the app for display? I suppose every coach year, model and manufacturer is capable of supplying the app with different information? How do we know what information is available to us? Where do we go to get a relatively complete list of what the app is capable of, given the limitations of what our coaches can supply to the app?



Those of you who are using this app (or even the other one), what information are you displaying besides the list of what I already have displayed on my factory gauges?



I guess that's enough to get the conversation started. If we can lets try to keep it basic and not overly technical.


EDIT: One more thing - will it run well on a Amazon Fire tablet?
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:16 AM   #2
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I see that no one has responded to your post yet. I am sure some will and as I recall there are several posts about this subject. My personal experience with BlueFire is similar to your case. I have a 2005 Airstream xl396 with Cat C7 DP.
Cat seem to have priority issues that get in the way of the electronics. Also there was period of time the the 7 to 9 pin plug and data available was a use up existing stock in unit builds. So long story short I Basically ended up with boost pressure available. I am yet to see any fault codes when check engine light comes on. As near as I can tell most of my problems come from the age of my coach and engine that I have to deal with. Wish I had a better report for you and will be following the thread to see if I am missing something as well.
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Old 05-09-2020, 06:20 PM   #3
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Thanks, Terry - from the lack of response I guess there's not much interest in this.
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:20 AM   #4
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Doug here is a link that helped me understand the BlueFire capabilities. It is quite lengthy but interesting.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/vmsp...on-425748.html

Good luck
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:36 PM   #5
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Thanks Terry. I have the black 9 pin adapter. Looks like both the black and green adapter will work. I need to figure out what the difference between the two is, other than Apple comparability. I plan on using an Amazon Fire tablet, which I understand is seen by the Bluefire system as an Android. It seems, if I'm reading everything correctly, the only way to figure out what parameters can be reported is to purchase the system and see what turns up. I guess I'll figure out which adapter (green or black) is best for me and see what happens.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:57 PM   #6
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I am interested as well, I have downloaded the Bluefire app and built a screen layout on my iPad. My 04 MADP, (built 12/03) has the 6 pin OBD. Haven’t purchased the Bluetooth dongle yet, hoping to learn more prior to buying.
Not tech savvy so simple is good.
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Old 05-13-2020, 04:23 PM   #7
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In addition to the items that I have highlighted below I find that certain things while shown on my gauges (which also all work well) are much easier to read in digital format (such as engine temp, air intake temp and transmission temp) and many others. Bluefire will take your 2005, like my 2001 into the electronic information age!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug427 View Post
Speedometer - Tach - Fuel Quantity - Engine Oil Pressure - Engine Coolant Temp - Transmission Temp - Voltmeter - Front Air Pressure - Rear Air Pressure.


Since they all work well, I see no reason nor desire to duplicate them on the BlueFire tablet. One speedo and tach is enough for me. I'm more interested in information that I'm not seeing. Things that immediately come to mind that I'd be interested in are:


- Trip/Fuel computer functions (gallons used, miles to empty, instant and average MPG, etc) YES


- Generator functions (volts, amps, temp, oil pressure, etc)no


- Outside tempNo


- Turbo boost pressureYes


- Cruise control infoYes


- Check engine codes (?) can it do this?Yes


- Transmission info (gear currently in, torque, etc)Yes, shows actual gear as well as gear selected

You can also get "Engine Loading" shown as a percentage in addition to air intake temp, transmission temp and sophisticated trip tracking functions that will be automatically emailed to you when ending a trip and starting a new one.



What am I missing?





My main question is, what can the app display, and what information can my coach supply to the app for display? I suppose every coach year, model and manufacturer is capable of supplying the app with different information? How do we know what information is available to us? Where do we go to get a relatively complete list of what the app is capable of, given the limitations of what our coaches can supply to the app?



Those of you who are using this app (or even the other one), what information are you displaying besides the list of what I already have displayed on my factory gauges?



I guess that's enough to get the conversation started. If we can lets try to keep it basic and not overly technical.


EDIT: One more thing - will it run well on a Amazon Fire tablet?
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:24 AM   #8
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Great info. Thanks, Paul
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Old 05-14-2020, 12:01 PM   #9
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Doug, the connectors under the dash were originally 6 pin, then around the year of your coach they went to 9 pin. Sometime after 2014, they went to a green 9 pin. You need a black 9 pin. They are different.


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The Blue Fire and SilverLeaf VMSpc products can ONLY read what the Cummins ECM monitors. As an example, everyone would like to see exhaust temps, but Cummins does not monitor exhaust temps, consequently, no available gauge. Instead, Cummins looks at Intake Manifold Temps, which I monitor on my SilverLeaf.

When you say your gauges, like oil pressure and trans temps are fine, they may be, but are usually just LOW - HIGH or COLD to HOT analog gauges. When you use the Blue Fire or SilverLeaf gauges, they are reading EXACTLY what the ECM is seeing, like trans temp, 186 degrees. I prefer to see the more accurate numbers.

So.....you need to know what the ECM sees in order to view a gauge. There are also some fun gauges, like Rolling Torque, Rolling Horsepower, Estimated MPG, and Instant MPG.

Here is a view of what I like to see while I'm driving. I'm using the SilverLeaf program, which I've been running in the three DP's I've owned.

Click image for larger version

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Old 05-14-2020, 06:00 PM   #10
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Thanks, Don - What confuses me is that I thought the Bluefire site was saying that if you have the green 9 pin, you had to use the green Bluefire adapter, but if you had the black 9 pin, you could use either the black or the green. It appears that the green one will support Apple products but the black one won't. One of them (I think it's the green one) auto connects and one doesn't. The black adapter has regular Bluetooth, the green adapter uses some sort of low power Bluetooth that some say disconnects more often than the regular Bluetooth.



I'm not a tech guy so I probably have that all messed up. That's where I get confused with all this.



As to what the Cummins ECU reports, I guess that's my main question. How do I find out, or do I just need to buy the adapter and see what pops up as available?



Lastly, no one seems to be reporting that they're successfully using a Amazon Fire Tablet. I have one laying around unused and I'd like to try it, if I know it'll work well.



As always Don, I appreciate your input.
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Old 05-14-2020, 07:14 PM   #11
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There are three things in play here.
There is the physical connection to the rig. The 6 or 9 pin. Older uses 6. Around 2002ish starting cutting over to 9 pin.

There is the protocol:

From Cummins: "There was a gradual shift from J1708 to J1939 between 2004 and 2007. Any engines prior to 2004 are most likely to be exclusively J1708. Engines from 2004 – 2007 are likely to have both protocols available. After 2007 it’s most likely going to be J1939 (with the odd exception). The ISX has been around for some time, so check the engine manufacture date to get a better idea of the communication protocol, rather than the engine model."

Both protocols may exist on a 9 pin vehicle. Or one or the other. But I believe the adapter supports both protocols. A protocol is like English vs. French. The adapter has to speak the language of the vehicle.

And then there is bluetooth. The more expensive adapter has a license to talk to Apple products. If you know you will never want to use an apple phone/ tablet, then save $10 and get the less expensive adapter.

"The Blue Fire and SilverLeaf VMSpc products can ONLY read what the Cummins ECM monitors." It's actually a subset of what the ECM exposes on the CAN network. There is a ton of data the ECM has and few scan tools know how to talk to those data sets. And, very common is the scan tool applies the wrong transform formula to data it is exposed to which then provides an inaccurate value.
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Old 05-14-2020, 07:49 PM   #12
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David, other than the extra $10 cost, is there any downside to getting the more expensive 9 pin adapter that's Apple compatible? Is the Bluetooth connection on that one just as reliable as on the black 9 pin adapter?
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:51 PM   #13
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I bought the apple version so I could use my phone as backup. Your Amazon tablet should work fine. I use a cheap Walmart one. As was said, even if uour temp gauges appear to be fine, they can be off. My oil pressure and engine temp were way off. Get the unit and plug it in. The stuff it monitors will have a value by it. The stuff it does not monitor won’t
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:46 AM   #14
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Not an expert on bluefire (yet) but I suspect there is no downside to buying the Apple compatible one other than spending another $10. I am thinking of buying an Apple version and then writing software for it (software would work with any of the bluefire models). But the bluefire developer says he is dropping support for the API (applications programming interface) so not sure if I want to make the time investment if bluefire won't support it ongoing. Really depends on time availability.

But, we would then be able to correct for any data transform issues as we could "retransform" the data on our side before user presentation (the user interface and / or macros).
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