Boston RV show turned out to be a bust

[journey15]

Originally Posted by Freddyp

Newbie here,,,, been retired for 4 years now and have been researching DPs for 3 of those years. Had to wait for the DW to retire which happens in 4 months or so - That being said, I figured the time has come to try and get her to get onboard with this decision. (She is only about 40% interested in this purchase) Decided to take her to the Boston RV show and then out to a fancy dinner afterwards. As luck would have it they had both of the DP’s that I have narrowed my choice down too. A 2019 Dutch Star 4018 and the 2019 Tiffin Pheaton 40IH. I could not believe that the 2 coach’s where only feet away and that she would be able to go from one to the other in mere seconds. I figured that this was going to be a slam dunk.....I was wrong.
After spending some time in each coach, I was totally disappointed and disgusted! Now I am no carpenter, or tile layer or upholster,,, but I do not quality when I see it. I counted no less then 12 major defects in both of these coaches. For fear of any legal liability, I wont state which coach had what wrong with it but will mention some of the negative items that even my wife identified.
One shower head had completely pulled away from the wall severely damaging the Corian shower walls. Major repair required! One coach’s cabinets had major flaws. These where maple glazed type cabinets, however it looked like they ran out out maple and decided to make a door with pine and maple. One side was black the other was brown and this was in at least 3 or 4 cabinet doors. Many doors would not even open. Washer, Dryer barn door fell off the track when a customer tried to open it. Tile floor - big disappointment here as well, many of the grount lines in one particular coach didn’t even line up. One coach’s passenger seat would not rotate - completely stuck! The pull out counter top in the kitchen was screwed close so you couldn’t pull it out! On one of the coaches only half of the LED lights were functioning. I could probably list several more obvious defects, but what’s the sense. Needles to say, my DW told me “who in there right mind would spend a quarter of a million bucks plus on something that was already falling apart and was brand new! So my question is, who is buying these things with this many defects. At a show no less. You would think that the manufacturer or no less the dealer would want these high end coach’s to look perfect.
Well in closing,,, needless to say the DW went 100% cold turkey and wants no part of any Class A DP in the future. Sorry for the long post, but I cant believe that I spent 3 years looking at these, flying to major dealers, attended shows in 3 states, put a half mill cash in the bank and it all totally went out the window in 2 hours at a show - all because the manufacturer/dealers have traded quality for greed.

I might be incorrect in stating this but I believe that the pecking order of the Newmar Dutchstars compares to the Tiffin Allegro Bus, not the Phaeton.
We have a 2014 Bus that we have owned for 1 year this month. We bought used as a new coach is just not in our budget. This is the 3rd coach we have owned and the 2nd Tiffin. The fit and finish in this coach is nowhere in comparison to the 07 Bus we had. I love this floor plan and needed to upgrade to a 45 foot coach. The Newmar's and Entegra's just did not appeal to us and we were very comfortable with Red Bay and the assistance we could get if needed so that is why we went with a second Tiffin.
We were at the Tampa RV Supershow this past weekend and looked at some new coaches, Entegra, Tiffin and Newmar. We looked at the Allegro Bus and also a Dutchstar. Still not impressed with Newmar. But we did like the Entegra Anthem 44F. Very impressive. This is just our opinion and I am sure there are Newmar owners out there who feel the same about Tiffin's.
Not sure who the dealer was that was displaying these coaches but I can tell you one thing, if Tiffin knew about the issues with that Phaeton, they would not have been very happy with it being on display!
As others have recommended, I would strongly encourage you to rent a coach and try the lifestyle. It may not be for you and your wife.

[petewolff]

We just recently purchased our first DP from a VERY large dealer in Texas .
After owning two class A gassers we have been shopping the diesels for about six months.
This shopping consisted of a two rv shows, some dealer lots and a lot of internet research.
The unit we finally purchased is a 2019 Fleetwood Pace Arrow LXE 38n .
An entry level DP but still a very nice coach but six months ago I didn't feel that way.

I had seen one for the first time at an rv show and the thing was a mess, broken cabinet doors , crooked trim , stuck drawers and several other things .

The one we purchased is great and aside from a few minor problems that were repaired before we left Texas the unit seems to be very well made.

I guess the point here is find a large dealer ( or two ) and walk into the rigs that interest you . I believe you will find one that is properly built . But keep in mind seldom are they perfect , at least that has been my experience.

I can't explain the difference in build quality from what we saw at the show vs what we purchased but there sure was a difference.

[vettenuts]

If it’s your first coach, I would look used. For starters, it sounds like your wife isn’t totally on board. A used coach will lessen the hit if things don’t work out. We still have our first coach and have been looking, but we have yet to find a coach we like more than our current coach. With your cash on hand, buy used and invest the remaining for repairs and maybe a future update to a different coach once you find things you would like to change.

[klspahr]

For something to do one day, we went to CW at The Villages in FL to walk around and look at what was on their lot. The used coaches were dirty, smelly, and had lots of broken interior parts! Would anyone really buy something like that? They clearly did not do any cleaning or repairing, I can imagine the mechanicals were in the same shape. I guess the people that work there only care about getting the their next pay check.

When I put our old motor home up for sale I went over it from top to bottom fixing and cleaning everything. Thirty one people from Craigslist contacted me wanting to look at it, the fourth person that looked at it took it. It was a nine year old class c.

Looks really matter IMO.

[AbdRahim]

Some dealers don't pay attention to detail. There are good ones out there. I have found meticulously clean MH's even at dealers I would never trust for service. I also have seen one, brand new in the lot, that I would either spend a lot of time cleaning and preparing, or hide from the viewing public.

[rvethereyet]

Well with kind of money I would go used top shelf Prevost. You will be impressed

[rvethereyet]

Seriously, take a look at Prevost Stuff. These buses are primo. You wont find anything better. For $500k you will find a very very fine used rv. One that wont fall apart, one that will turn heads and one you will be proud to own. Wish I had that much $$$$. Your wife will fall in love.

[ThePowells]

Originally Posted by rvethereyet

Seriously, take a look at Prevost Stuff. These buses are primo. You wont find anything better. For $500k you will find a very very fine used rv. One that wont fall apart, one that will turn heads and one you will be proud to own. Wish I had that much $$$$. Your wife will fall in love.

Yep, I looked at the Prevosts at the Tampa Show. They came with 6 alternators AND a free oil leak on that 500 HP Volvo engine.

[TTD]

As some have already said, consider a used coach that was HIGH END when new.

I had the same experience as the O.P. and ultimately ended up in a 2008 Country Coach. Even though it was 10 years older than the new stuff I was looking at, the Country Coach drove as good, if not better - and showed no sign of wear (all woodwork was high quality and still looked as good as new, etc)

In the end, it was $150k to $200k less than the new stuff I was looking at. That's a lot of money I've saved that can be put into upgrades, repairs... or just FUN!

[99phantoms]

Originally Posted by petewolff

We just recently purchased our first DP from a VERY large dealer in Texas .

Why the secrecy? Just tell us who it is.

[Dutch Star Don]

We purchased a new 2014 Newmar Dutch Star off the lot. On the first trip it had two issues, a noisy dash fan and a microwave that worked, but had a recall. I replaced the dash fan myself, which the dealer provided. I didn't like the microwave, even if it didn't have a recall. I replaced it with a new Sharp Carousel. I returned the original microwave to the dealer and told him to do what he could with the recall. Instead, he wrote me a check for the price of the Sharp. Three years later, we had a paint issue along the roof line, Newmar paid for the repair.

Fast forward to September of last year and we ordered a new 2019 Dutch Star. We made several changes called "specials" to cabinetry, doors, wiring and windows that other brands DO NOT allow. We took delivery in November of 2018.

During the delivery walk thru.....we found one A/C unit worked but not on heat pump. New A/C ordered. There was a small ding in the SS refer door that was at the same height as the logo on the other door. They ordered me a new logo and I removed the original and placed the new one over the ding...problem solved. I had one slide that didn't close completely and they adjusted it.

The owner actually noticed that the armrests on the captains chairs were not done right and ordered four new armrests from Flexsteel.

All in all, nothing prevented us from taking delivery or using the coach. On our last trip, we noticed that when the double patio awnings were out, one hung lower than the other. This was adjusted when the slide was adjusted. On this trip, I noticed the two awnings were not fully retracted by about an inch. It took me about ten minutes to adjust the limit switch. One is still slightly off and will be adjusted when the new A.C is installed.

All in all, pretty minor stuff and nothing that prevented use of the coach. Keep in mind that often show models are abused, like someone hanging on the shower head.

With all that said, my 2005 Monaco Diplomat (we bought new) was the best built coach we ever owned. When we decided to replace it, we searched for the best bang for the buck coach. Our search narrowed down to the Tiffin Allegro Bus and the Newmar Dutch Star. Keep in mind, the Allegro is closer to the Newmar MountainAire. In rankings, the Dutch Star falls between the Phaeton and the Allegro Bus.

We eventually bought the Dutch Star as it's the only 40' coach with a tag axle, there was a dealer near us and we liked their half bath 4018 floor plan and quality of materials. We bought our second Dutch Star for the above reasons and really liked the Comfort Steer which is something we knew nothing about when we bought our 2014.

Many people on here feel that a new motor home should be of the same quality as a Honda Civic, even though a Civic is made identical to all other Civics and is made in less than a day by a robot, while a large DP takes over a month and built by human hands.

No matter what you buy, you'll find some issues. The smart buyer tries to limit those issues by buying the best quality coach they can afford. I felt that Newmar, Tiffin and Entegra fall into that group. If you want a perfect coach, you'll waste another four years of RVing time looking for one and even then, you won't find it.

Lastly, I think the Tiffins would be just as nice as the Newmar coaches and with any brand will have some issues.....again built by human hands.

[Arch Hoagland]

Freddyp...Have you or your wife ever used an RV?

[Isaac-1]

My advice is to go to a dealer that specializes in used high end coaches (Country Coach, Foretravel, Newell, Prevost, etc.) Motorhomes of Texas comes to mind in my region and take a look at what is out there in your price range, ignoring model year (at least to a degree). There are a lot of formerly million dollar coaches out there that are 10-20 years old, that are now selling in your price range. The thing about these high end coaches is that for many of the initial owners, money is not an object, so they are often kept in top maintenance condition, often stored indoors, sometimes even in climate controlled garages, something that rarely happens with even the mid-upper line models. It is simple economics, it makes more sense to store a million dollar coach in a $200,000 insulated garage, than it does to store a $350,000 coach in a $200,000 garage. By contrast the $350,000 coach is lucky if it is stored in a $30,000 metal shed.

[timjet]

If the flaws you encountered are turning you off from buying and enjoying the RV lifestyle then perhaps RVing is not for you. Any new rig you buy will have some issues, after all each motor home is hand made and doesn't come off an assembly line where quality control is closely monitored.
That being said I have never encountered the quality control issues you mentioned and I just attended the Tampa supershow.