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Old 12-31-2016, 08:52 AM   #1
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Calling all gassers.....re: gas

OK I think I have narrowed down my intermittent rough running and stumbling engine to the dreaded ETHANOL curse. I have had issues with ethanol gas since it came out related to boats and small engines. I will NEVER put another drop of ethanol gas in my blower, edger, portable generator, mower or boat again. Now that being said how do I deal with this crap in my motorhome. Realistically can not afford to put non ethanol gas in this thing 60 or 70 gallons at a crack, but wondering what else to do. Has occurred to me that my poor performance begins when I take motorhome out of storage and head down the road, no starting issues and no running issues first 20-30 minutes. Then after running a while down the road I get the stumbling on acceleration, rough run at low speed from stop, etc.. At this point I usually stop and top off tank with fresh fuel and symptoms clear, almost immediately. I post few months back about changing fuel filter when this first began and thought that had cleared it up, but in hind sight I realize that in conjunction with the filter change I filled up with fresh fuel before heading out, so now think it was the fuel and not filter that helped.

So, now, how do you all store and fuel your rigs. I usually top off when headed home from weekend runs, then head home to unpack and drive it to storage. Consequently I am usually letting 60 or so gallons of fuel sit in tank until next outing. Sometimes for a few weeks, sometimes for a few months. Now I am beginning to think I should run tank down, put in some treatment and fill up when coming out of storage.

Conventional wisdom in boat world if plagued with ethanol fuel is to keep tank full to minimized moisture accumulation in tank, and associated issues. At least in the boat I have a water separator filter on there to deal with this, and water stays in bottom of filter and stays out of fuel system (theoretically). Not sure filter in here accomplishes same for me.

Do you all use dryer, conditioner, store near empty, store near full, or not have any issue with this.

Look forward to hearing from you

By the way, it's a Ford F-53, V-10 if that matters.
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Old 12-31-2016, 09:01 AM   #2
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When was the last time your Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor was cleaned. I suspect mine has never been cleaned in 15 years and 70k miles. I cleaned it before our last trip and did notice a difference in the occasional stumbling and misfires I was getting before.

Maybe give this a try...

Clean the MAF sensor on 2001 Ford F53 V10 | 2001 Coachmen Mirada 300QB

As for the gas, the only thing I do special is to make sure the tank is full before entering any long term storage periods. Then when we do a trip, I run that tank low (maybe 1/4) before filling up again with fresh gas.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:32 AM   #3
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Have you tried putting some fuel stabilizer in your tank before putting into storage?

In addition to the MAF sensor, take a look at your throttle body. That gets gunked up behind the throttle plate, and if you take apart can clean it. Replace the gasket as well. You could have a situation where as it is warming up the metal is expanding and creating an air leak changing the mixture.

Just did that to my daughters 2004 car who came home for the holidays.....was idling really rough. Sensor was fine, but the throttle body was gunked. Runs/idles perfect now.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:40 AM   #4
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I had one instance where i let my old 4 wheeler sit up for close to a year that caused a gumming up of the carburetor. I've also had to replace fuel lines on a chain saw and a couple of my weed eaters. Other than that, i've never had any problems with gasoline sitting up.

Changes in outside temperatures do cause condensation in tanks so i do make sure to fill the them before storage. I don't use any additives as i feel they are a waste of money.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiawah View Post
Have you tried putting some fuel stabilizer in your tank before putting into storage?

In addition to the MAF sensor, take a look at your throttle body. That gets gunked up behind the throttle plate, and if you take apart can clean it. Replace the gasket as well. You could have a situation where as it is warming up the metal is expanding and creating an air leak changing the mixture.

Just did that to my daughters 2004 car who came home for the holidays.....was idling really rough. Sensor was fine, but the throttle body was gunked. Runs/idles perfect now.
X2, Ditto
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:07 AM   #6
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Yeah gas doesn't haven't much of a shelf life to begin with. Then on top of that, with con't EPA standards being imposed on manufacturers, they have really had to tweak these small engines so much, that's another major reason why your having so many problems with your garden equip variety engines. The orifices are so small now in these fuel systems, that the least amount of varnish build up or micro particles shuts them down and you usually have to rebuild the carb or at least give them a major flushing and retune them to get them working again. What's the key? Clean, Premium fuel, clean air filter and run often.

So now here we have these giant motorhomes with 80 gal. tanks. 80 gallons! and I guarantee you it's all 87% reg. unleaded gas with probably the standard 10% ethanol to boot. And then many owners let them sit for months. So this is a recipe for fuel problems and inefficient fuel injectors. In addition to that, all gas is NOT created equal. Go put a tank of gas in your car from Valero or some other fly by night gas station distributor and then a tank from say Chevron if you don't believe me. And let's not forget, you also have a gas generator on board too. These units are also very susceptible to bad gas. I have read 100's of posts on this and other forums with people asking about maintenance for their rigs and I have not once ever read, anyone mentioning doing a deep cleaning on their fuel injection system or even maintaining them on a regular, intermittent basis by using a good additive to their fuel. Not being critical here, just a fact.

Now of course it's cost prohibitive to use anything other than 87% reg. unleaded—in our MH's—but since that's the case, it's even that much more important to keep that fuel system well maintained.
On all my gas vehicles, including my MH, I do the following:
• Buy quality gas. I do not look for the cheapest price chop shops. Personally I use Chevron and found they have the best, consistent fuel and my vehicles run great on their mixture
• A thorough BG Products, deep fuel injection cleaning every 15K miles (this is done at a BG authorized shop that has the proper equip. and costs about $225 and takes about 1 hour to do. https://www.bgprod.com
• With every oil change (which I do about every 4K miles), I add BG 44K fuel additive to the gas tank that I buy on Amazon. Forget buying all those useless other marginal auto zone type fuel injector cleaners. They are not strong enough to do the job properly and is a waste of money
https://www.amazon.com/BG-44K-Fuel-S...eywords=bg+44K
• If you—have to leave your MH sit—for an extended period of time where the gas can start to go bad, use Seafoam with the appropriate dosage in your gas tank and drive it around for about 30 minutes—with the generator running too—and get all fuel systems thoroughly saturated with the treated fuel. Buy just about anywhere, so look for sales.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:07 AM   #7
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Hi,

When storing your coach and before you fill the tank add a bottle of Sta-Bil to the tank. Before you take it out of storage add a can of Lucas Gas Conditioner (Green Fluid).

The problem you are encountering is that the corn is separating from the gas.

Good luck and I use the above products all the time.

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Old 12-31-2016, 11:20 AM   #8
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I put the proper amount of STA-BIL in my tank at the end of the season. Sta-bil always worked for me on my Snowmobiles and so I put it in the motor home. I also use Lucas Top End Oil Treatment and the blue stuff (ethanol treatment) at every fill up.
I just saw a report on TV that SHEETZ stores began selling 15% ethanol gas now. This report said that some car manufacturer's will not honor their warranty if they find 15% ethanol gas in the tank. IMHO ethanol should be banned all together. A guy who own's a marine and small engine shop told me that ethanol is responsible for about 90% of his business in recent years.

IMO, if it isn't good for small engines, it can't be good in the cars or Motor home. We can get real gas ($$$) here in our town and that's all I use in my small engines, lawn tractor and Honda EU2000. I agree with John McCain, ethanol in gas is a farce.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:24 PM   #9
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I also use Sta-bil. On our return from a teip5, we add one bottle, then fill the tank to the brim. Run the genny for 20 minutes to ensure we get the new gas through the system. Then park it. I will then run the engine and genny once a month.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:36 PM   #10
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Calling all gassers.....re: gas

Never had a fuel issue in a fuel injected motor. Think your issue lies elsewhere. Let's face it, dealers don't take near the precautions an owner does and they don't have these issues.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:57 PM   #11
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Never had a fuel issue in a fuel injected motor. Think your issue lies elsewhere. Let's face it, dealers don't take near the precautions an owner does and they don't have these issues.
That's because dealers don't keep these vehicles for years & years.
I've known people that smoked all their life and never got cancer, but that doesn't mean smoking is not harmful to your overall health.
I don't know if fuel injection was the OP's problem or not. Probably not. But I felt it was a good time to bring this important issue up, not just for him to possibly think about, but for others who may find this post down the road.

The gas engines of today will run 200K, 300K with no problem IF you take care of them properly. Long term neglect or sparse maintenance at best, will—prevent—any gas engine to get even close to that kind of milage. Most people today purchase a new car or truck every 3-5 years and never experience the major headaches of maintenance neglect. They sell it or trade it in while it still has some good value and not to many miles on it (usually 60K-70K) and they move on with their next new car. It's usually the 2nd buyer of this now used, neglected vehicle, that discovers it wasn't cared for properly and it's that person, who gets to experience the headaches.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:10 PM   #12
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Ethanol gas is crap. Thank the corn growers lobby. There's no gas shortage anymore. It's not necessary. I only use No-ethanol gas in everything but the cars and RV. Fortunate to have a station just down the road that sells it. RV I add a couple of bottles of Sta-Bil to the full tank before storing it for the winter anyway just in case there's any condensation.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:34 PM   #13
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PRI Fuel Stabilizer- For Gasoline 32oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007ECE3IM..._plcAyb2WS25KB
I found this stuff that they use when transporting gas. I talked to the manufacturer and there main sell is to big transporter. The price is good and it will take the old gas and bring it back. I was having issues with the generator and after putting this in and drove the RV around to mix it up and came back the next day it purred like a kitten. Camping world sells this too but ordered mine from Amazon.
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Old 12-31-2016, 03:49 PM   #14
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,,, So, now, how do you all store and fuel your rigs.,,,
2006 F53. Just turned over 56,000 miles and 1300 hours on the generator this year. Owned it since April 2011. Coach get's used from Easter thru Thanksgiving pretty much every other weekend and a two week summer trip. 123 fill ups averaging 44 gallons. I do all maintenance per the the manufactures recommendations. Coach is winterized with a full fuel tank and is at home in the driveway out in the weather of southeastern Virginia when not on the road. 3600 watt generator that I recently loaded as high as 3250 watts to test performance. Lost a few volts but no problem otherwise.

The only liquid that has ever gone in the fuel tank came from a fuel pump nozzle. No problems starting or down the road performance with both the engine and generator.

Not sure what to recommended but maybe drain the fuel tank and try a partial fill with non ethanol for a few trips for confirmation. Something else to check is using a code reader pulling live data when you're having problems. Something as simple as an intermittent problem with an air temp sensor or a coolant temp sensor will cause problems. Mass air sensor also. No reason why you couldn't add a water separator. Plenty of room along the chassis rail to bolt one in. Just pick a spot thats easy to see and reach but well clear of heat sources.

Any problems with the generator? Being a carburetor engine not much different than a riding lawn mower it would be much more sensitive to poor tasting fuel than the coach engine.
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