CARB ACT, save the diesels!

[Velvetones]

NO Politics!

Ok full disclosure: I’m pregaming retirement hinged on a hub of full time RVing. No RV yet, but will be a class A in the next five years if not sooner. My wife has had mobility impact from cancer so that’s the only thing that will fit the bill. Travelling in comfort with home self-contained is the only accessible way. She’ll never technically be cancer free, so just want to make the most of whatever time we get.

To my point: You may have heard or read about the lack of exemption for diesel RV chassis mfgs that will imminently impact RV industry beginning Jan 2025! Ca CARB ACT is also being adopted by 6 states and has to be adopted in full. So CARB decides.

We live in Oregon and there isn’t any sales tax here. But if you can’t even register them here no benefit for us to buy anywhere. This is really gonna put a wrench in.

But beyond OUR needs, the industry and community is going to be impacted dramatically in more than ten states from sales to mfg as well as the community. Will diesel owners be able to renew plates in the six states? Dunno, CA is wagging the dog.

I’ve reached out to my OR state and national legislators, Newmar (who recently notified dealers of the required changes), the CARB group and new gov of Indiana imploring them to act on exemption immediately. They need to aggressively engage this issue and I encourage you to also reach out now, do the same.

One aspect supporting an RV industry exemption- and nearly exclusive to RVs, is the growing use and retrofit conversion of larger coaches to LiFePO4 batteries and solar power. *This purely clean power is fast replacing old lead acid technology and significantly reduces use of diesel generation of power. We aren’t part of the problem.

Intrepid RV owners are driving the use of clean power using roof-mounted solar panels coupled to lighter weight and longer-lasting Lithium iron phosphate safe batteries!

Perhaps RV mfgs could commit to drive toward fully replacing or offsetting diesel generation, by transitioning to these more at the factory level.

We need to not only save MFGing and sales in many states, but also preserve our access to this resurgent, popular family pastime, which is experiencing its own clean energy revolution!

Get involved! Please…. Need a blitz!

[oldenavy]

There was another thread on this topic a few days ago that got closed down, probably due to political comments.

My understanding of the new proposed rules is that the diesel ban would not go into effect until 2036, so why are RV manufacturers stopping sales in 2025? What am I missing? Here’s one article on this topic:
https://calmatters.org/environment/c...ks-epa-waiver/

[d23haynes57]

I think power generation for supporting the house section of our RV's is a near insignificant problem. Most folks with large RV's tend to frequent RV parks where grid supplied power is usually available. The real drivers for on board power generation is comfort, mechanical AC/heat pumps, and food refrigeration. A driver for power generation to support refrigeration is the move from absorption refrigerators to electric, typically residential models. Electric cooktops and water eaters also create electrical demand but again the usage is minimal.

The real driver for these mandates is to get off fossil fuels and Deisel is getting picked on due to the high pollution it creates but also a very small percentage of the voting population directly feels the effects of these efforts. Go tell all voters that they will no longer be allowed to own a car that is not the latest tier level standard or whatever!

For my 2008 Nimbus, I still have an absorption fridge. Maybe 2 gallons per month on propane. The generator now has about 1,250 hours on it. That's for a 16 year old coach. I do about 12 hours year running it for maintenance. Even for winter dry camping I need it ~ 1to 2 hours day. Only for AC do I need to run it continuously.

[Velvetones]

That article is from August and the more recent reporting was that this impact would ensue January 2025, and Newmar had made dealers in affected states to not expect 2025 inventory after 2024. I wasn’t able to find a copy of the Newmar letter, but a number of reports I heard stated January is when it effectuates. The driver is CARB in CA and chassis mfgs had put out notice since they don’t have offsetting product offerings to use the credits scheme.

I think that the emerging switch or supplement of solar and lithium batts can help get them to an exemption for RVs, but it seems to be an urgent need!

Here’s link to one article:
https://www.rvtravel.com/breaking-mo...ales-6-states/

[MooseCountry]

100 years ago steam engines in NYC caused air pollution and the exhaust smoke obscured traffic lights leading to a deadly train crash and even more such accidents followed. Electrification of the railroads was mandatory per the Kaufman Act, but it was far too expensive to implement. Railroads turned to diesel engines. The Act was overturned. Maybe history will repeat itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufman_Act

[Velvetones]

The argument that the industry had made to CARB was simply about the small proportion of diesel RVs to the overall diesel population. But that wasn’t enough.

The fact that so many RV owners are converting to solar and lithium for supplemental power of redundancy seems the best way to get some consideration and MFGs possibly moving toward standard implementation of this at the factory. What that could look like, I don’t know, but it’s relevant I think.

[Gravelette]

This has been beat to death in several threads. Folks who don't live in CA sure whine a lot about what goes on there.

[Velvetones]

I think this is a really important discussion. So hopefully it sticks. If we just stay the immediate topic of securing exemption, v broader common sense you noted. May help keep this alive.

Anyone want to provide links to finding email of legislators? Just send some emails.

[Velvetones]

Originally Posted by Gravelette

This has been beat to death in several threads. Folks who don't live in CA sure whine a lot about what goes on there.

I get it. For me something in one state that affects RV community as a whole and folks in at least 20% of other states is important.

Other states that adopt ACT have to do it in full, no leeway consider their own exemptions.

[95f5334j]

Originally Posted by Velvetones

I wasn’t able to find a copy of the Newmar letter

Here ya go....

[d23haynes57]

Even if not an outright ban, the engine or chassis manufacturers have to somehow offset the carbon footprint or purchase carbon credits from others. As these manufacturers do not have alternative's (EV), they have to buy and just don't want to.

[NXR]

Virginia pulled out of CARB's EV mandate earlier this year: https://www.governor.virginia.gov/ne...028520-en.html


The previous Trump administration was poised to revoke California's delegated authority to set their own anti-pollution rules but I don't know what happened that they are still in effect: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/76181...issions-standa

California did an end-run in 2024 by getting Stellantis to agree that they would support CARB rules even if the delegated authority was revoked. Other vehicle manufacturers previously agreed to the same thing: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2019/07/25/ca...ion-standards/

SACRAMENTO – As the Trump administration prepares to roll back emission standards for light-duty cars and trucks, a consortium of automakers and California have agreed on a voluntary framework to reduce emissions that can serve as an alternative path forward for clean vehicle standards nationwide. Automakers who agreed to the framework are Ford, Honda, BMW of North America and Volkswagen Group of America.


What's that old curse? "May you live in interesting times."


In reality this is not an insurmountable problem. The CARB interpretation is that it only affects brand new DP's. Buying a 2025 DP used with at least 7,500 miles on it is no longer considered a new vehicle and can be registered in California.

Me, I'm thinking about starting a business to have CARB state residents buy me a brand spank'in new DP and then I'll resell it back to them after I put 7,501 miles on it. Heck, I'll even handle a lot of their warranty problems for them.

This RV Business article written by the RVIA explains the nuances: https://rvbusiness.com/californias-b...-need-to-know/

Ray

[Gravelette]

Originally Posted by Velvetones

I get it. For me something in one state that affects RV community as a whole and folks in at least 20% of other states is important.

Other states that adopt ACT have to do it in full, no leeway consider their own exemptions.

The RV community may well appreciate your concern and I hope you'll be able to join the community in the future. That said, you may be wrong in assuming all RVers lack environmental consciousness and support your position.

[TruckinRound]

Now it’s not just diesels over 14500 gvwr.

According to this article, ACT affects ALL motorhome chassis over 8500 lbs.
Diesel and gas, class A, B, & C.

Straight from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/c...-you-need-know