Community Forums

jmhobbs · 10-18-2020, 11:52 AM

Hi Everyone,
I have searched previous forums for help on this, but I have not found any explanation that helps me. I have a 2004 Beaver Patriot Thunder, it has a C12, with a tag axle.
The placard on the coach states that the GVWR is 45780 lbs. Then it gives the GAWR for the front axle and the rear axels as 14780, and 21000, and 10000 for the tag.

The original brochure states that "gross vehicle" weight is 46300, then it has "combined" as 56300lbs. I know the towing weight is 10K, but does that mean I can carry up to 10K additional pounds? I know I would need to load it evenly, then get individual corner weights, but I want to start off as close as possible.

My brain hurts! If someone can explain this to me in small words I would really appreciate it!

Skip426 · 10-18-2020, 12:08 PM

The " Combined " # is weight including your towed vehicle / or trailer .

GVWR is the coach alone .

You can tow the extra weight , 10,000 # you don't get to add it into the coach .

To figure what you can carry , you either have to find the CCC ( Cargo Carrying Capacity, sometimes listed as OCCC ; Occupant + CCC ) or weigh the coach empty , and compare the actual scale weight to the GVWR.
Or the UVW ( Unladen Vehicle Weight ) or Curb weight and subtract that # from GVWR.

Are you confused yet ... if not I'll keep trying.

jmhobbs · 10-18-2020, 12:26 PM

Thanks for this. It's interesting that I cannot find an empty weight anywhere. I'll go to the truck scales before we load up.

lrgomez1976 · 10-18-2020, 12:44 PM

It took me a while to understand this but here you go... The best thing to do is

1. Fill the fuel tank with your favorite petrol. Then fill the grey, black, and fresh tanks with water.
2. Go to your local Cat Scale or Rig scale and get some weight data. The scales are usually set up as three scales in one, so place the front axle on the first, and the rear & tag axle on the second scale. Contact the operator through the speaker and let them know you are ready for a weight reading. Then go in and get your paperwork.
3. The paper will reveal the weight of the front axle and the weight of the rear two axles.
4. Adding all those numbers together will provide you with the "current" vehicle weight. Example: front 10,000 lbs rear (tag included) 15,000 lbs totals to 25,000 lbs. Your unit is 47,780 GVWR, so 25,000 from the GVWR = 22,780 additional weight until you reach the max numbers.
5. As for towing, your number is 10,000 lbs. Well that must be included as part of the total GVWR. SO, going back to the example I mentioned you could have additional weight of 22,780 lbs... well if you tow a toad or trailer that weighs 10, 000 lbs that is subtracted from the 22,780 lbs leaving you with 12,780 of additional weight.
6. So the maximum weight your unit can safely handle is the GVWR of 45,780 lbs. So take the weight of...

Front axle + Rear axle = combined numbers

Combined numbers - GVWR = TOTAL ADDITIONAL WEIGHT

"OR" pulling a trailer / toad

Front axle + Rear axle + towing = combined numbers

Combined numbers - GVWR = TOTAL ADDITIONAL WEIGHT

The tag axle is only there to help with additional weight... as a backup for the rear drive axle.

It's a little easier if you put this to paper!!

jmhobbs · 10-18-2020, 01:06 PM

Yep, this is what I was hoping for! Thank you for this easy to follow explanation. I will do just what you suggested. My toad is about 6500lbs, so I have a little extra there. I don't want to be even close to my max weight, so this will help me a lot.
Thanks again!

richard5933 · 10-18-2020, 01:33 PM

You're not going to find an empty weight listed in most RVs, since that number is really meaningless until it is ready to leave the dealership. Every dealer installed option is going to affect the cargo carry capacity of the rig.

The number is very simple to obtain. With the fluid levels all full, with the propane tank(s) full, pull the coach across a scale at any truck stop and weigh it. Then deduct that number from the GVWR. What remains (if any) is your cargo carry capacity (CCC).

Remember that the CCC includes everything you add to the RV, including driver, passengers, food, tongue weight of your trailer, etc.

Where the axle ratings comes in is usually after you have all your gear loaded up. At that point, run across the scales again. (If you do it again w/in 24 hours of the first time, you only pay a couple of dollars for a re-weigh.)

With the rig fully loaded, you want to know if you have overloaded one of the axles. If so, you have to adjust where in the coach you stored things.

For many rigs you will hit the GVWR long before both of your axles are at max.

hohenwald48 · 10-18-2020, 02:13 PM

If you download the "Weigh My Truck" app from Cat Scale you just pull on the scale, enter the scale number and get your weight in an email in less than 30 seconds. Never even get out of the driver seat. Nothing to it.

On the Cat website you can find all the instructions for stopping on the various scale platform configurations.

Ivylog · 10-18-2020, 02:26 PM

No, you can’t use the 10K extra combined on the rig and you do not need it. On the back of a cabinet you should have a CCC sticker. The good news is you have around 9000 lbs of CCC... so your empty weight is around 37,000 lbs. You have a great coach and no worries about how much stuff you can put in it. Load heavy things to the rear as you’ll run out of front axle capacity before using all of the 9000 CCC. I try and weigh when I have full fuel and full fresh water while on a trip.

OR (not that far away) is good about leaving their scales on even though the weigh station is closed...free weighing. After weighing each axle, you can usually get off to one side to weigh just the passenger side unlike most CAT scales. You will get more accurate side weighs if you turn around and weigh the driver’s side... no subtraction necessary but not necessarily if perfectly level.

Ray,IN · 10-18-2020, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmhobbs

Thanks for this. It's interesting that I cannot find an empty weight anywhere. I'll go to the truck scales before we load up.

Find the empty weight by subtracting the CCC from GVWR, not exact -close. Empty weight should be on a sticker in a closet or back or a cabinet door, unless previous owner removed it for some reason.

Gary RVRoamer · 10-19-2020, 01:19 PM

A 2004 should have an RVIA-standard weight placard somewhere inside, usually in a cabinet. That would show GVWR, UVW, and a set of cargo numbers, i.e. CCC, SCWR, Water, & LP.

I've attached a sample RVIA weight placard.

Crasher · 10-19-2020, 06:06 PM

When you go on the Cat scale, be certain that your tag suspension is not dumped. Some coaches will automatically dump the tag at a slow speed, or when backing up, or in my case when I hit the directional below 20 mph. Some have a switch to dump and some can lift the tag. If the tag is dumped when on the scale, you will get a false weight for the steer and the drive axles. The scale has three platforms and it's easy to put the steer on the first, the drive on the second and the tag on the third platform. The tag axle is for carrying the extra weight, but it will also influence what the steer axle will weigh. By adjusting the air pressure in the tag suspension, you can increase or decrease the weight on the steer axle. Your steer axle will probably be the one to get overloaded first.

Ivylog · 10-19-2020, 07:06 PM

Good point about the tag ^^^^. ..40 psi is what most run the tag axle’s airbags at. Monaco\Beaver will not automatically dump unless you have the tag raise switch on.

jmhobbs · 10-20-2020, 06:34 AM

Thanks everyone. I'll try what you all suggested. It's great to know that there is so much knowledge out there!

Shutterbug57 · 10-21-2020, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrgomez1976

It took me a while to understand this but here you go... The best thing to do is

1. Fill the fuel tank with your favorite petrol. Then fill the grey, black, and fresh tanks with water.
2. Go to your local Cat Scale or Rig scale and get some weight data. The scales are usually set up as three scales in one, so place the front axle on the first, and the rear & tag axle on the second scale. Contact the operator through the speaker and let them know you are ready for a weight reading. Then go in and get your paperwork.
3. The paper will reveal the weight of the front axle and the weight of the rear two axles.
4. Adding all those numbers together will provide you with the "current" vehicle weight. Example: front 10,000 lbs rear (tag included) 15,000 lbs totals to 25,000 lbs. Your unit is 47,780 GVWR, so 25,000 from the GVWR = 22,780 additional weight until you reach the max numbers.
5. As for towing, your number is 10,000 lbs. Well that must be included as part of the total GVWR. SO, going back to the example I mentioned you could have additional weight of 22,780 lbs... well if you tow a toad or trailer that weighs 10, 000 lbs that is subtracted from the 22,780 lbs leaving you with 12,780 of additional weight.
6. So the maximum weight your unit can safely handle is the GVWR of 45,780 lbs. So take the weight of...

Front axle + Rear axle = combined numbers

Combined numbers - GVWR = TOTAL ADDITIONAL WEIGHT

"OR" pulling a trailer / toad

Front axle + Rear axle + towing = combined numbers

Combined numbers - GVWR = TOTAL ADDITIONAL WEIGHT

The tag axle is only there to help with additional weight... as a backup for the rear drive axle.

It's a little easier if you put this to paper!!

Essentially your #5 states that GCVWR can not exceed GVWR. So, if my rig placard states GVWR = 32,000# and GCVWR = 42,000#, under your #5, Tiffin got it wrong? IIRC, my CCC is ~3,800#, so if I loaded nothing in the coach, I could only tow a 3,800# vehicle 4 down? Am I understanding your #5 correctly?