Changing to inverter/charger due to refrigerator change

[ldswofford]

So, the Dometic fridge in our 2002 Bounder 33R died (a saga I could tell, but will save the whine for later).
We now need to replace the fridge and instead of going back dual fuel, I am looking to go residential electric. According to local RV repair guys, the 10.1 Magic Chef or Frigidare from the big box stores is their new go to, as it fits in the same space and give more room in the fridge. What they say they do is just add an inverter and then plug/unplug as needed when shore power is connected. I asked them about draining the (2) 6V golf cart batteries when traveling down the road...and they say people just run their generator as they go down the road....
Wondering if anyone else took this route and do the Genny on the road.. or if they regret going with the residential fridge at all?

My plan is to get one of the fridges, but since my converter is old (heck this is an almost 20 year old RV)... I am looking at replacing the converter with a 'smart' inverter/charger (ie Xantrex/Victron/etc) and then going to replace the 6V batteries with 12V 100 AH LIFePO4 batteries of some kind. I know a lot of people swear on Battleborn, unless I am vastly mistaken, ALL (ok, maybe just 90%) of all LiFePO4 cells used in batteries are made in China. I think BB uses Chinese made cells in their batteries and just add their own BMS, along with a few bells and whistles.

I am having an issue finding out from either Magic Chef or Frigidare what their power consumption (amps/watts) is for their unit. (anyone have this?)
I am trying to figure out if I need more than (2) 12V 100AH or (1) 12V 200AH battery to be able to reasonably accomplish what I need (at least for the moment). We don't boondock a lot, other than a Wally-world/Cracker Barrel/Harvest Host on occasion, but not days on end...

The Victron (and I suspect many other) inverter/chargers have programmable charging modes for lead acid/Glassmat/LiFePO4/etc, which is why I am considering it...the other thing is I have seen on other forums, some just setup the inverter side to supply the fridge and others do some connection into the primary breaker panel or the switch so that when not plugged into shore power or generator, the inverter side can supply 110V to the entire 110V RV system (ok, within reason)...and then when either shore power or the generator are running, the inverter/charger internal switch shuts the inverter side off within 200ms and just runs the charging side to maintain the batteries...( this is something that I would really need to understand how to do before considering or having someone help me)...

Any constructive advice is greatly appreciated...

Thanks
Larry

[Bigd9]

I went from a small Norcold 4 door refrigerator to a 20+ cf Frigidaire residential refrigerator. I took the old Norcold semi apart and got it our by the front door. Then we removed the large living room window and 3 guys from Lowes and myself easily slid the new Frigidaire into the coach. They said afterwards "that was the easiest home install we ever did!"

I used the same inverter, and same wet cell Costco 6 volt batteries that the Norcold used. My new 20+cf Frigidaire draws around 2 maps when running. So far in the past 3 years absolutely no problems. The hardest part of the job was putting the large window back into place. That sucker was heavy!

[paul65k]

Best way to do it is to use the new Victron Multiplus II 12/3000 unit and wire it directly into your existing electrical panel. This will allow all circuits in your coach to run from the inverter and you will only be limited by the size of your battery bank as long as you don't exceed 2400W total continuous and 4K on startup.

The new "II" version has Bluetooth built-in so you should be able to control everything directly from your smartphone

[ldswofford]

Thanks for the advice/info. I am curious about you saying the blue-tooth being built-in to the MP-II.. as I see on the Victron datasheet page still shows that it needs the dongle for blue-tooth... I know this was available for the MP...so maybe they include that as part of the package? I hadn't decided on whether to go with the dongle or not...since Victron also now has their smart-shunt that has blue-tooth also included on it and I thought I needed a shunt for the batteries anyway and was looking to use that....As for the comment from BigD9..thanks... whether I go LiFePO4 or not, I think I need to change the converter (read NOT inverter), as it is probably (in reality) late 1990's/early 2000's technology and I suspect that it doesn't really protect the batteries and could end up cooking them by overcharging...looking at the LiFePO4 option as that technology doesn't really off-gas like my Costco batteries do...still appreciate any and all info from everyone out there.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by ldswofford

Thanks for the advice/info. I am curious about you saying the blue-tooth being built-in to the MP-II.. as I see on the Victron datasheet page still shows that it needs the dongle for blue-tooth... I know this was available for the MP...so maybe they include that as part of the package? I hadn't decided on whether to go with the dongle or not...since Victron also now has their smart-shunt that has blue-tooth also included on it and I thought I needed a shunt for the batteries anyway and was looking to use that....

I went back and checked and I was mistaken about the Bluetooth, I thought they had added it to the MPII

In any case I highly recommend you get the Cerbo GX instead of the Dongle as this will not only give you BT and more importantly WiFi so you can monitor remotely but more importantly it will give you a complete view of your entire system including incoming grid power, battery status as well as AC and DC loads all on the VRM app on your phone.

And if you add solar in the future you can easily tie in the MPPT controller as well that looks something like this



When you add solar in the future it will show this as well

[rffowler55]

We just went through this process and bought the Danby 10.1 cubic feet refrigerator made by Whirlpool/Amanna. Our units startup amps is 1.9 and running amps is .8 amps. I had to run a new line from my inverter to refrigerator since I only had a 110 outlet at that area that was powered from either shore power or generator.

With the new line I added a transfer switch at the refrigerator area, used the existing 120v line as the utility in and the inverter line as the secondary power source. The transfer switch output became the existing outlet’s power source.

With this setup, when shore power or generator is running they power the refrigerator. When traveling between sites the inverter powers the refrigerator from the house batteries which are charged by the alternator. More than enough amps coming from the alternator to keep the chassis and house batteries fully charged even with the refrigerator running.

[ldswofford]

Cool! Thanks!
Paul, how did you directly tie it into your panel? The thing for me is... The Bounder I have is 30 Amp, not 50 Amp... I know (other than how 30/50 differ), this doesn't really make much difference in how you do many things, other than the fact 50 Amp has 2 separate hot legs and you actually get that on each leg. While I haven't looked (yet) to see, I think that there is probably a breaker in my panel that should go to the existing CONVERTER. I will have to look tomorrow to validate this. I also will have to verify what size breaker and what size wire Fleetwood used when they built the RV to make sure that they are sufficient to handle the inverter-side load. I am wondering if this is what is to be used, as running a totally new circuit could be challenging. It would be great if all that I had to do is remove the old converter under the old fridge, figure out how/if I have to extend that wiring to where I need to install a Multiplus, then use the old wiring path(s) back to the 120V panel and the 12V panel... and then figure out if I have to change the breaker in the 120V panel, at least to handle the fridge. ( this scenario is probably fraught with issues, as I am not a professional... but an RVer...and we will try to tackle ANYTHING, right? :-))

[FIRE UP]

ldswofford

Well Sir, we too just went through the exact process you're thinking about. And, yep, we used the Magic Chef 10.1 cu. ft. It's a long story about the change from our 17 year old Norcold to the newer residential fridge but, here's the very short version. We bought the Magic Chef at Home Depot, brought it home and plugged it in, in the garage to check out its operation prior to installing it in the coach. Within 1 hour, it went from 87 degrees down to 29 degrees and, since it did that good in the fridge section, I didn't even bother checking the freezer temp.

So, I went through the work of installing it in our '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. Yep, it fit right in. I completed the install and, even created some really nice looking facia to help hold that Magic Chef in place when we're hot rodding down the road.

We were plugged into shore power in our RV garage when I did all the work. The fridge was working flawlessly. We were to take off on a trip the following morning after the install was complete. We loaded the fridge and, off we went. I switched on the Magnum 2012ME MSW inverter/charger prior to us departing in the morning, so that the new fridge would keep on running as we exited the RV garage.

We were about an hour into our trip when I asked the CEO to step back and check the fridge. She did and reported: "It's not ON"!!!!!!!!!!!! What's this? CRAP!!!!!!!! I asked her to check the inverter ON switch, she did and said it was ON. Hmmmmm. I then hit the generator switch on my dash and zooooom, the gen fired up. I then asked her to check the fridge again. She reported: "It's ON!!!!!!!!!!!. Hmmmmm.

What I found out was, the 120VAC outlet behind the fridge IS NOT INVERTER POWERED!!!!!! Contrary to so many on here that think all RV's are built the same, THEY'RE NOT! So, after doing much experimenting and talking with folks on here, what I ended up doing was this.

Upon advice from a fellow RV'er on here, I purchased a 1000 watt PURE SIGN WAVE INVERTER with a BUILT IN TRANSFER SWITCH to run that fridge off my (4) 6V house batteries. I then disconnected the wires to the 120AC outlet at the back of the fridge and wired them into the new Inverter. I then purchased and installed, one black and one red, "0" gauge set of cables that I ran from my house batteries, THROUGH a 100 amp continous duty solenoid and into that same new inverter. I setup that continous duty inverter to be able to shut off the 12VDC power to that inverter when needed.

I can switch that solenoid ON and OFF at the base of the new fridge.

Now, when we're plugged into shore power, the shore power goes RIGHT THROUGH that new inverter and powers up the fridge. Within 40 "Nano-seconds", (that's what the company says is the transfer speed of the built in transfer switch), the inverter switches over to 12VDC power. The fridge NEVER KNOWS THERE WAS A POWER INTERUPTION!

It's been working like that and quite flawlessly for oh, about a year now and we love it. If you need any answers about that Magic Chef, please ask. Be glad to help.
Scott

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Larry-

In early June I replaced my coach's Norcold 8 cubic-foot with the Frigidaire FFET1022UB, a 10.1 cubic-foot residential (link here). The new refrigerator uses 5 amps of 120VAC to start (for less than a second), falling to 1-1/2 amps (for a few seconds) and then quickly to 1/2 amp for steady-state running. The compressor runs about 30-40 minutes out of an hour- I haven't kept close track.

My original plan was to run the generator to keep the reefer cold when on the road. That works. [Note: The refrigerator and freezer warm up quickly when shut off and empty. It could be my installation- the evaporator coils are in the sidewalls, and so close side clearances mean the unit has a tough time getting rid of heat. In any case, so far it seems the "turn it off and keep the doors closed" strategy does not work as well as I had hoped.]

My coach is a 30A (AC) coach with a 60A (DC) converter. It has two 220 Ah (when new) 6-volt AGM house batteries. It does not have an inverter- neither a whole-house inverter nor an inverter dedicated to certain outlets. Adding a whole-house inverter is impractical. Adding an inverter on the circuit that feeds the outlets is possible, but not easy. Ditto for adding an inverter dedicated to the Frigidaire. Mostly, it has to do with the relative locations of the house battery bank and the refrigerator.

My coach use pattern is several days on the move and a long time sitting still, with almost every night attached to shore power. Every now and then I may spend a night off the hook.

For those occasions, and going down the road (without running the generator), I've been experimenting with a combined battery pack-and-inverter. The results are very promising. The unit I chose (Bluetti EB70, link here) supplies a nominal 700W of pure-sine-wave 110V from its LiFePO4 batteries. It has enough surge capacity to start the refrigerator compressor. Experiments say that it will run the refrigerator for 12 hours and still have approximately 30 percent of its capacity left. It can charge and discharge simultaneously; if plugged into the house battery bank, it can run for 12 hours and have 60 percent of its capacity left over 12 hours. These are rough numbers; your mileage may vary.

I started with very simple wiring: An extension cord from the Bluetti to the rear of the refrigerator, manually swapping between that and the house 120V outlet as needed. As of today, I have started installing a 15A transfer switch. That will eliminate the need for the manual swap.

I could go on, but this is enough info for now, I think.

[ldswofford]

Thanks Scott for the encouraging words on the Magic Chef fridge.
Yes, I realize that my RV has two separate power systems.... and that the old fridge was connected to both! My initial plan is to wire the electric outlet at the back of the fridge into the Victron (or other) inverter charger, along with the existing shore power. The Victron has a transfer switch built into it that is supposed to do the transfer in about 20 ms (not 200ms as I previously mentioned)... so nothing would get hurt and the fridge doesn't know anything ever happened. As for the lead acid batteries, I will probably try to see how the ones we have handle it, at least for a little while. The (2) Costco 6V(s) we have are around 4 years old and probably starting to get long in the tooth anyway, which is why I have been looking at LiFePO4 batteries. If I figure out that wiring the inverter/charger (ie Victron 12v-3000W Multiplus) into the main panel is somewhat easy, I will probably look at doing this, for future potential. At a minimum, I would just replace the converter with the inverter/charger, wire that to the existing batteries but add in a power shut-off switch on the + leg and a Smart-shunt on the - leg at the batteries.... to switch the batteries completely off and to monitor the battery charge/temo/etc states via blue-tooth (ie Victron Smart -Shunt. Then wire in the 12V side of the RV and at a minimum the outlet for the refrigerator...

[ldswofford]

Thanks Mark... The information you provided can be used for reference....

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by ldswofford

Cool! Thanks!
Paul, how did you directly tie it into your panel? The thing for me is... The Bounder I have is 30 Amp, not 50 Amp... I know (other than how 30/50 differ), this doesn't really make much difference in how you do many things, other than the fact 50 Amp has 2 separate hot legs and you actually get that on each leg. While I haven't looked (yet) to see, I think that there is probably a breaker in my panel that should go to the existing CONVERTER. I will have to look tomorrow to validate this. I also will have to verify what size breaker and what size wire Fleetwood used when they built the RV to make sure that they are sufficient to handle the inverter-side load. I am wondering if this is what is to be used, as running a totally new circuit could be challenging. It would be great if all that I had to do is remove the old converter under the old fridge, figure out how/if I have to extend that wiring to where I need to install a Multiplus, then use the old wiring path(s) back to the 120V panel and the 12V panel... and then figure out if I have to change the breaker in the 120V panel, at least to handle the fridge. ( this scenario is probably fraught with issues, as I am not a professional... but an RVer...and we will try to tackle ANYTHING, right? :-))

So in that case you simply need the Multiplus 12/3000 not the Multiplus II. You simply wire the output of the inverter into the existing 30A breaker as the input will go directly into the inverter and then into the panel..... should be a pretty easy install!

All the rest stays the same as I wrote above

[veraken]

On my MH the inverter does NOT power the fridge. The best/easiest thing to do is to add a separate pure sine wave inverter with a built in transfer switch for the fridge. I would suggest you look at a KISAE SWXFR1210 1000W Pure Sine Inverter or KISAE SWXFR1220 2000W Pure Sine Inverter. Other options are the Aims Inverter with transfer switch PWRIX120012SUL and the Xantrex ProWatt 1000 Pure Sine Wave 806-1210. The Xantrex ProWatt doesn't come with an internal transfer switch but Kisae makes a nice external one.

After investigating this, I found running my generator while on the road to be the most cost effective solution.

[shootist]

Originally Posted by veraken

On my MH the inverter does NOT power the fridge. The best/easiest thing to do is to add a separate pure sine wave inverter with a built in transfer switch for the fridge. I would suggest you look at a KISAE SWXFR1210 1000W Pure Sine Inverter or KISAE SWXFR1220 2000W Pure Sine Inverter. Other options are the Aims Inverter with transfer switch PWRIX120012SUL and the Xantrex ProWatt 1000 Pure Sine Wave 806-1210. The Xantrex ProWatt doesn't come with an internal transfer switch but Kisae makes a nice external one.

After investigating this, I found running my generator while on the road to be the most cost effective solution.

Nothing too cost effective about running a generator just to power a feidge. Small inverters are cheap.