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Old 05-05-2019, 05:26 PM   #43
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so true never had a problem with the noise in ours
12,000 miles and no problems in our Bay Star either. Two oil changes at about $40 a piece and that’s been it. Thought about a diesel, and then read the threads on fan boxes and Cummins heads and dropped valves and said nope!
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:26 PM   #44
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As a recent purchased 35ft 2000 Adventurer Winne (were the 2nd owner) with the Ford chassis & proper air pressure in tires I'm very overall impressed with the V-10! I averaged 8.75 mpg on a recent 500 mile trip (kept it at 60 & never went above 4000 rpm's on the hills).
As an owner of older classic cars etc I believe my old Winne is better insulated heavier built than the newer gas rigs!
I also own a new large Lance camper on an older Dodge diesel truck I love the exhaust brake & 12-13 mpg but I'm glad I have a gas powered class a!
If all I did was travel in a class a & stayed i rv parks and owned only 1 rv I would probably buy a mid size DP with a small Cummins but for us the gasser is my choice!
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:38 PM   #45
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Speaking as someone that had a gasser and experienced the same issues you mentioned, I moved up to a 40’ diesel and the difference is amazing!!!!!

I’d never want to go back to a gasser!!!!! Period!!!
I'd be curious to know what gas rid you had. With your statement, you are painting them all with the same brush and as you can read other comments here, it just ain't so.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:33 PM   #46
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We have a low-end gas class A. I drive 60 and it's comfortable and not too noisy. I get a little better than 8mpg. Maintenance is cheap and easy. As an old trucker, I know a lot about diesel, I've driven several pushers and I agree they ride and drive better. BUT the extra 100 grand, low end, and higher and more difficult maintenance puts it out of my budget. Plus, I don't want a rig over 32 feet as that's the limit to my back yard and there aren't many places I can't go. I agree with both sides.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:23 PM   #47
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We live in Colorado. If we want to go more than 3 miles west from our house, we are in the mountains. We can slowly get up the mountains with a gas engine towing our trailer or drive at or near the speed limit in a diesel. The major difference in the towing ability is, however, not due entirely to the diesel's torque advantage. It is due to the diesel's turbocharger.

A naturally aspirated engine, even fuel injected, loses 3% of its power per 1,000 feet of elevation increase. So, if a Ford V-10 in a motorhome is going over 11,300' high Berthoud Pass on US 40, it has lost 34% of its power. A turbocharged engine reduces that loss to less than 1%/1,000', so has considerably more pulling ability on top of that pass.

There is also a considerable advantage to the diesel going down the mountains. It is much less stressful with the diesel due to the exhaust brake. As just one example, with the exhaust brake turned on, I never needed to use the brakes while descending US 14A on the west side of the Big Horn Mountains until we stopped at an overlook for photos. Until then, the exhaust brake kept us at a very constant and safe speed.

So, for those of us who RV in the Rockies, there is no comparison between the benefits of a diesel over a gas engine.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:29 AM   #48
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We just purchased a 2019 Tiffin Allegro Open Road 32SA model, with the V10. Coming from a Mercedes diesel class C, we wrestled with gas vs DP in a class A. We drove various class A’s from different builders and narrowed down to Tiffin RED 33AA or the Open Road 32SA. DP are quieter, have a better torque range than gas, but are more complicated and expensive to maintain. We just had our first trip, crossing the Cascade Range (Santiago Pass) and I was duly impressed with the V10 and the Tiffin build. The coach was surprisingly quiet, and yes - you do get some engine noise pulling a grade at higher RPM’s. But, the noise is not excessive, you can still have a normal conversation and hear the GPS. The ride is quite good on the F53 chassis with upgraded Sumo suspension option. Noise is no greater than the Mercedes Sprinter class C we traded in for the Tiffin. Also, I think Tiffin took pains to build a quality coach and worked to eliminate noise. We are quite happy with our selection.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:55 AM   #49
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Just took a 4,000 mile trip in my new Class A 36' Gas RV, it beat us to death on bad roads, rattled & shook the whole RV, and the V-10 engine was loud making conversation hard or listening to radio.

Question: For those of you that have had both a gas & diesel Class A RV.
Does a diesel ride better on bad roads, is it quieter too. What are the maintenance costs differences on both. Pro's & Con's would be helpful.

Thanks
Richard
I'd have to say when the road is bad our DP isn't a whole lot better than a gas coach. Vehicles this big just can't have a suspension that can carry the load and ride well on bad roads. it is quieter though.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:38 AM   #50
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No question a rear diesel rides better and is much quieter than the equivalent size in a gas. However it costs more initially and it costs more to maintain. For example, we just got our yearly service on both the coach motor and generator. It was about $600 in Alabama. Lots more than a gas would have been. It is also hard to get a small diesel (under 33-34’). Diesels come into their own as bigger rigs because a gas just can’t generate the horsepower needed to move a big rig down the road. So if you go big, you have to go diesel.
Actually the gas engines can generate the horsepower, just not the torque. Torque can be and is measured, horsepower is calculated using torque and RPM.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #51
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Class A Gas or Diesel

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Originally Posted by barmcd View Post
I'd have to say when the road is bad our DP isn't a whole lot better than a gas coach. Vehicles this big just can't have a suspension that can carry the load and ride well on bad roads. it is quieter though.


It depends!
Our 09 Monaco Camelot 43 has a tag plus 10 airbags, 10 shocks. It rolls at about 43,000 lbs.
On a real bad road we can hear the roughness, but it is only gently transmitted to us.
BTW, our Speedco annual maintenance is superb, and under $400.
And our coach cost at 5 years old was much less than a new high-end gas model.
I could go on......
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:27 PM   #52
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This is an old post I wrote in November....... I just cut and paste it, and adjusted it where was needed to make sense today.

Disclaimer - The tone was a little angry, there was lots of bashing on gas coaches, this post is being much kinder... Im not angry today, its just the way it was written months ago. Also some of what is below are responses to questions or comments made in that post also.

Here are some facts about my new/modern gas coach that I purchased last October.



I have owned 4 RV's total, 3 gas, 1 diesel. I have traveled ALL of the lower 48 states in an RV. I have logged +16000 miles in a diesel and +45000 in gas. Yes I could afford a diesel if I wanted one. My newest coach I purchased 7 months ago is a 2019 Fleetwood Southwind 37F is 38' 9" long... that's 15 inches short of 40 feet, Yes, gas units are that big. I tow a 2018 Jeep JL unlimited sport. The MSRP on the coach was $215,800, obviously that's not what I paid. When shopping I test drove multiple gas and diesel coaches from 4 of what are often referenced on this site as the top brands.

I also want to state that I can only use my RV and my experiences for the following statements below and I understand other companies and lower priced RV's will obviously provide different results than mine.

ALL gas engines are loud - False, under normal driving conditions. When I drive my 2019 the engine revs 2200 at 60mph and 2700 at the computer controlled top speed of 75mph. The normal road, wind, and RV noises are louder. The new sound dampening materials are so much better than even my last 2016 gas coach that had the five speed transmission. It was louder, but there is no comparison to the new ones. At 65 MPH I could have a whispering conversation with the person in the passenger seat. When climbing hills or over 3000 RPM then yes you can hear it, but its not deafening. The higher the RPM's the louder it gets obviously, but never like described by others where shouting is needed to talk. Don't use and compare your gas coach experience that you had from 2004, like I said huge difference between now and my 2016. Don't just repeat what others are saying, test drive one, go 65, and find out for yourself!

The ride is bad in a gas RV - Listen, is it a cloud, no... but it isn't a Uhaul truck either. Speaking with MY experiences, my 2019 gas rides much better than my 2008 Monaco diesel did. But when I test drove mine and another diesels on the lot, the truth is a pothole is a pothole. The best news for me is for a few thousand I can make it better than stock with upgrades, if I choose to do so, although I can't imagine that I ever will. Those of you out there that keep saying "my diesel rides so nice" You might be are right, but qualify it by saying you spent +$400k for your tag axle with 20 air bags and don't compare it to something that costs 1/3 the price. I hope you got a lot more than ride quality for the +$200,000 or more you spent than me because mine not as bad as you may think. Also so many of you tow a Jeep wrangler, like I do, and talk about your coaches superior ride quality... and then tow a vehicle frequently referenced as "a harsh, firm and bumpy ride" by professional automotive sources. The probable truth is if someone is posting "Gas or Diesel" then there is a high chance they are not considering high end diesels costing $300,000-$700,000 against substantially less expensive gas coaches from $99,000 to $175,000. But with that being said, an entry level or older diesel may not be that different to a high end gas.
Which brings me to my next point.

Diesels are trimmed out better than gas Fact- My Fleetwood Southwind 37F has 6 individual personal sleeping spaces, FIVE TVs, two FULL baths with TWO showers. Unlimited hot water. Undercarriage LED lighting. Induction cooktop, residential fridge, washer / dryer, outdoor TV/DVD/Bluetooth entertainment. Electric powered cord reel. Cellular/WiFi booster antenna system, dash cam integrated with the dash radio. All of the coach ceiling lights are dimmable, and so much more. Yes these are all available on a diesel too, but quit acting like its ONLY in a diesel, gas units have high end features too.

Towing - DIESELS WIN!!!! If you have a heavy load, stacker trailer, or anything over 10,000 lbs you need a diesel! But did you know I can tow 8000 lbs with an 800 lb tongue weight with my gas? Bet you didn't. Most of us, even with diesels, are just towing a vehicle, so that's more than enough. No I don't crawl up hills at 35mph but I probably slow down to 50-55 on the steeper grades which is fine with me. Its part of having a gas and I understand that.
Also at almost 40 feet semi's do not blow me around on the road. I can drive one handed with the cruise at 70-73 and drive comfortably for hours, the engine does just fine.

The way all these "What should I get diesel or gas?" posts seem to go is, "get a diesel if you can afford it or settle for a gas and be unhappy"

I know I will get responses, with people mad or disagreeing with what I am saying BUT understand this, I didn't bash diesels in this post, Im just saying why I am happy that I picked a gas. You can like yours without talking bad about the other.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ RV'r View Post
This is an old post I wrote in November....... I just cut and paste it, and adjusted it where was needed to make sense today.

Disclaimer - The tone was a little angry, there was lots of bashing on gas coaches, this post is being much kinder... Im not angry today, its just the way it was written months ago. Also some of what is below are responses to questions or comments made in that post also.

Here are some facts about my new/modern gas coach that I purchased last October.



I have owned 4 RV's total, 3 gas, 1 diesel. I have traveled ALL of the lower 48 states in an RV. I have logged +16000 miles in a diesel and +45000 in gas. Yes I could afford a diesel if I wanted one. My newest coach I purchased 7 months ago is a 2019 Fleetwood Southwind 37F is 38' 9" long... that's 15 inches short of 40 feet, Yes, gas units are that big. I tow a 2018 Jeep JL unlimited sport. The MSRP on the coach was $215,800, obviously that's not what I paid. When shopping I test drove multiple gas and diesel coaches from 4 of what are often referenced on this site as the top brands.

I also want to state that I can only use my RV and my experiences for the following statements below and I understand other companies and lower priced RV's will obviously provide different results than mine.

ALL gas engines are loud - False, under normal driving conditions. When I drive my 2019 the engine revs 2200 at 60mph and 2700 at the computer controlled top speed of 75mph. The normal road, wind, and RV noises are louder. The new sound dampening materials are so much better than even my last 2016 gas coach that had the five speed transmission. It was louder, but there is no comparison to the new ones. At 65 MPH I could have a whispering conversation with the person in the passenger seat. When climbing hills or over 3000 RPM then yes you can hear it, but its not deafening. The higher the RPM's the louder it gets obviously, but never like described by others where shouting is needed to talk. Don't use and compare your gas coach experience that you had from 2004, like I said huge difference between now and my 2016. Don't just repeat what others are saying, test drive one, go 65, and find out for yourself!

The ride is bad in a gas RV - Listen, is it a cloud, no... but it isn't a Uhaul truck either. Speaking with MY experiences, my 2019 gas rides much better than my 2008 Monaco diesel did. But when I test drove mine and another diesels on the lot, the truth is a pothole is a pothole. The best news for me is for a few thousand I can make it better than stock with upgrades, if I choose to do so, although I can't imagine that I ever will. Those of you out there that keep saying "my diesel rides so nice" You might be are right, but qualify it by saying you spent +$400k for your tag axle with 20 air bags and don't compare it to something that costs 1/3 the price. I hope you got a lot more than ride quality for the +$200,000 or more you spent than me because mine not as bad as you may think. Also so many of you tow a Jeep wrangler, like I do, and talk about your coaches superior ride quality... and then tow a vehicle frequently referenced as "a harsh, firm and bumpy ride" by professional automotive sources. The probable truth is if someone is posting "Gas or Diesel" then there is a high chance they are not considering high end diesels costing $300,000-$700,000 against substantially less expensive gas coaches from $99,000 to $175,000. But with that being said, an entry level or older diesel may not be that different to a high end gas.
Which brings me to my next point.

Diesels are trimmed out better than gas Fact- My Fleetwood Southwind 37F has 6 individual personal sleeping spaces, FIVE TVs, two FULL baths with TWO showers. Unlimited hot water. Undercarriage LED lighting. Induction cooktop, residential fridge, washer / dryer, outdoor TV/DVD/Bluetooth entertainment. Electric powered cord reel. Cellular/WiFi booster antenna system, dash cam integrated with the dash radio. All of the coach ceiling lights are dimmable, and so much more. Yes these are all available on a diesel too, but quit acting like its ONLY in a diesel, gas units have high end features too.

Towing - DIESELS WIN!!!! If you have a heavy load, stacker trailer, or anything over 10,000 lbs you need a diesel! But did you know I can tow 8000 lbs with an 800 lb tongue weight with my gas? Bet you didn't. Most of us, even with diesels, are just towing a vehicle, so that's more than enough. No I don't crawl up hills at 35mph but I probably slow down to 50-55 on the steeper grades which is fine with me. Its part of having a gas and I understand that.
Also at almost 40 feet semi's do not blow me around on the road. I can drive one handed with the cruise at 70-73 and drive comfortably for hours, the engine does just fine.

The way all these "What should I get diesel or gas?" posts seem to go is, "get a diesel if you can afford it or settle for a gas and be unhappy"

I know I will get responses, with people mad or disagreeing with what I am saying BUT understand this, I didn't bash diesels in this post, Im just saying why I am happy that I picked a gas. You can like yours without talking bad about the other.
Great post. Well said. I'm a bit tired of folks lumping all the gas rigs into one bucket and talking trash. It just ain't so. And, even the older higher end gas coaches are very quiet as well. I'm sure that they are better now than my 2005, but I can't believe it could be a whole lot. Mine is very quiet. I think this whole debate typically centers around two things.

1) People that say gassers are rough and so noisy you have to yell to carry on a conversation are coming out of an entry level, low priced gas class A. Something like a Thor Ace or a FR3 or comparable. Maybe some other lower line coach or as you say an older lower line coach. All gas rigs are simply not alike. Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago, Fleetwood build some very nice quality gas rigs. Maybe others as well.

2) Secondly, I just have to wonder when reading some of the conversations how much some people are just trying to justify what they''ve spent on a diesel pusher. They drank the Kool-aid and bought into the hype so now its time to justify what they did.

Just my opinion.
jt
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:39 PM   #54
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Interesting.
Same could be said for the gasser people bashing DP’s.
That you need $100,000 cash with you at all times in case something breaks.
If someone is unable or incapable of understanding that most DP’s ride better and are quieter there is no amount of Kool-Aid that will make a difference anyway.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:55 PM   #55
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I don’t think I have bashed DPs. They are great. They are also expensive. They ARE expensive when they break. A diesel should easily be good for 500000 miles or more. But my point has always been that one should look at how they are going to use their MH. For sure weekenders with one long trip a year a diesel really doesn’t make sense - unless there are other factors involved such as heavy towing or lots of mountain driving. If someone is using it more regularly and traveling a lot a diesel probably makes sense. They’re all comfortable when parked.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:10 PM   #56
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I'm at a loss for these continued discussions. Not about someone asking about the difference in gas vs diesel, I think in my first 20 posts about 2 years ago I had some questions as well, but, the sensitivity that so many people have regarding the subject.

I think a lot of it has to do with self esteem. When I rode a motorcycle, I had a Harley Davidson, there seemed to be a similar kind of discussion. Harleys were the best vs anything else and depending which side you were on, the same type argument occurred. My thought was always, it doesn't matter what you ride, as long as you are riding.

Why does everyone get so sensitive when this subject comes up? It's your money, time, place in life, needs, ability, all of these things. Who the heck cares what anyone thinks. Just get a rig and travel. Thats what matters in my opinion.
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