Class A Gas Versus Diesel - Our first Motorhome purchase

[nvs4602]

If money was no object, I would buy a diesel. But for me it is. I don't want to pay 8k for new tires and $400 oil changes, on my current budget. And the $2 difference in gas vs diesel right now is ridiculous.

I just now in my next life I'm going to be born rich. Instead of being so damn handsome.

[716OutWest]

A lot of great recommendations on here. I was in your exact shoes about 9 months ago. My wife and I bought our first Class A diesel (2006 Monaco Diplomat). The reason why we choose older diesel pusher was: 1. Our primary purpose was to travel between Arizona and New York annually and a diesel is much more comfortable, powerful, and safer (in my opinion), 2. We needed a 40ft plus to accommodate our family so to my knowledge gassers that big likely don’t exist. 3. My wife wanted to remodel the interior of one so we decided to bet on an older diesel for longevity to invest money on the inside I wanted something that (theoretically run for awhile).

To summarize, if you are just looking for close proximity weekend getaways and you don’t need 40 feet plus, plenty of gas models that will do the job (and much cheaper) but if you need a tour bus to travel the country, you will not regret going Diesel after you have been behind the wheel for the 7th day straight at 10 hours per day with the wife and kids in the back! Just my opinion. Lastly, I am just starting to get into the annual maintenance now and it’s not cheap (as you know from maintaining a diesel marine engine). But totally worth it in my opinion. I LOVE my diesel pusher…also, go pre-def (07 or older) much more power and you don’t have to Jack with the cost / hassle of adding Def. Good luck!!

[Giapk]

Here’s a thought that I haven’t seen in this thread yet. With a gasser, you will be going to the gas pumps. There’s a big difference in getting a 30 something footer with a toad into the typical gas pump situation navigating the tight turns, and waiting for cars to move versus going to the truck pumps in back where the approaches and exits are long and gradual which really helps.
Having a diesel truck pulling our TT, I can tell you that the engine braking coming down the mountain is a huge thing. With the gasser, you’re on the brakes all the way. Disc brakes can handle that, but drums? I don’t have a good feeling.

We are also shopping for a new motorhome having just come out of an Airstream. I drove a high end gasser with the new Ford engine and chassis. The thing that really was disappointing was the brakes. I’m going to drive another one before ruling this concept out, as the layout and comfort features checked a lot of our boxes, but it was almost scary how hard it was to get the rig stopped. It’s in serious need of disc brakes imo. On the cost side, if you run the numbers out over 10,000 miles, it’s a toss up between gas and diesel. If the supply dries up, fueling up our rigs will be the least of our worries. Almost 100% of our food comes to us on trucks running diesel. That’s a much bigger concern to me.

[Shadow5501]

Originally Posted by Giapk

Here’s a thought that I haven’t seen in this thread yet. With a gasser, you will be going to the gas pumps. There’s a big difference in getting a 30 something footer with a toad into the typical gas pump situation navigating the tight turns, and waiting for cars to move versus going to the truck pumps in back where the approaches and exits are long and gradual which really helps.
Having a diesel truck pulling our TT, I can tell you that the engine braking coming down the mountain is a huge thing. With the gasser, you’re on the brakes all the way. Disc brakes can handle that, but drums? I don’t have a good feeling.

We are also shopping for a new motorhome having just come out of an Airstream. I drove a high end gasser with the new Ford engine and chassis. The thing that really was disappointing was the brakes. I’m going to drive another one before ruling this concept out, as the layout and comfort features checked a lot of our boxes, but it was almost scary how hard it was to get the rig stopped. It’s in serious need of disc brakes imo. On the cost side, if you run the numbers out over 10,000 miles, it’s a toss up between gas and diesel. If the supply dries up, fueling up our rigs will be the least of our worries. Almost 100% of our food comes to us on trucks running diesel. That’s a much bigger concern to me.

That’s a fair point about fueling a large gas rig. It works best with some pre planning of fuel stops to research pump layout, entry and exit, etc. you certainly don’t just pick a station and pull in, well not more than once.

I would like to correct a misunderstanding on your part. The F53 has four wheel disk brakes, and has for a very long time. The pedal effort is surprisingly high, you have to push pretty hard. This is consistent across several that I have driven. I think the effort should be lower (more power assist) but don’t confuse this with the brakes being inadequate. The braking power is determined by the size of the brakes (swept area) and the size of the brakes is limited by the wheel diameter. The F53 has brakes that just barely fit inside the 22.5 inch wheels - same as any diesel pusher. The F53 uses hydraulic oil (brake fluid) to actuate the brakes whereas a diesel uses air, but the type of actuation system does not determine the braking power.

The brake pedal effort on the several diesel pushers I have driven (Freightliner and Tiffin chassis) is much less than the Ford for the same amount of braking.

One thing Ford has done on the F53 is specify brake pads with a compound that works better at high temperatures than at ambient temperature. Basically, the brakes get stronger when they are used harder or more frequently. So they feel a bit weak in normal, relaxed driving but stronger during a hard stop or when descending a long grade.

All that said a diesel does have the distinct advantage of an engine/exhaust brake which is very effective for long downgrades.

[HighDesert]

Originally Posted by Shadow5501

That’s a fair point about fueling a large gas rig. It works best with some pre planning of fuel stops to research pump layout, entry and exit, etc. you certainly don’t just pick a station and pull in, well not more than once.

I would like to correct a misunderstanding on your part. The F53 has four wheel disk brakes, and has for a very long time. The pedal effort is surprisingly high, you have to push pretty hard. This is consistent across several that I have driven. I think the effort should be lower (more power assist) but don’t confuse this with the brakes being inadequate. The braking power is determined by the size of the brakes (swept area) and the size of the brakes is limited by the wheel diameter. The F53 has brakes that just barely fit inside the 22.5 inch wheels - same as any diesel pusher. The F53 uses hydraulic oil (brake fluid) to actuate the brakes whereas a diesel uses air, but the type of actuation system does not determine the braking power.



The brake pedal effort on the several diesel pushers I have driven (Freightliner and Tiffin chassis) is much less than the Ford for the same amount of braking.

One thing Ford has done on the F53 is specify brake pads with a compound that works better at high temperatures than at ambient temperature. Basically, the brakes get stronger when they are used harder or more frequently. So they feel a bit weak in normal, relaxed driving but stronger during a hard stop or when descending a long grade.

All that said a diesel does have the distinct advantage of an engine/exhaust brake which is very effective for long downgrades.

We had a 2019 Tiffin 32SA before our DP and the brakes were scary "weak". You really had to stand on them to get the rig stopped, especially if something unexpected happened in front of you. This was one of the reasons I always drove the MH in "Tow / Haul" mode for any extra engine baking assist I could get. Air brakes in the DP make stopping a whole lot better!

[Iceclimber]

Originally Posted by Papaslick

We voted to buy an older DP, preDEF. We love the solid wood cabinets and interior trim. We tow a trailer that holds our 2 Goldwing Trikes and a smart car so our mileage runs about 5-6 mpg running 65 mph. We have has gas before, but they always struggled with the toys we wanted to haul with us. One problem with older coaches is they tend to have more breakdown time. With the lack of trained techs it takes forever to get any repairs done in a respectable amount of time. Our last trip for repairs kept the MH out of commission for 6 months and now needs to go back to repair the repairs.

That is a fair point. I wanted some air brake service while visiting here in AZ, nice gentleman said we are scheduling into February for a two hour service. Luckily I located a tire shop with an air brake PhD.

[Tskadberg]

Originally Posted by HighDesert

We had a 2019 Tiffin 32SA before our DP and the brakes were scary "weak". You really had to stand on them to get the rig stopped, especially if something unexpected happened in front of you. This was one of the reasons I always drove the MH in "Tow / Haul" mode for any extra engine baking assist I could get. Air brakes in the DP make stopping a whole lot better!

Our 2020 F53 stops as good as any car I’ve driven. Maybe there is something wrong?

[Tntpxy]

We recently purchased a 2002 Winnebago Journey 36DL. Our first class A DP. It is very nice, has everything. We've had every type of RV over the years and our favorite was a 2007 Artic Fox 30ft. fifth wheel. Comfortable to to tow and to live in plus we had a vehicle to go explore in.
Since my wife does most of the driving we are considering going back to a fifth wheel.
She's ok driving the motorhome but was more comfortable with the truck and fifth wheel.
So we are thinking of selling the motorhome.
If anyone is interested message me for details and I will be happy fill you in on the details and specs.
We are currently in Pennsylvania.
Thanks

[Shadow5501]

Originally Posted by HighDesert

We had a 2019 Tiffin 32SA before our DP and the brakes were scary "weak". You really had to stand on them to get the rig stopped, especially if something unexpected happened in front of you. This was one of the reasons I always drove the MH in "Tow / Haul" mode for any extra engine baking assist I could get. Air brakes in the DP make stopping a whole lot better!

Perhaps there was a problem such as glazed rotors on the 32SA, but my guess is that it’s just the large difference in pedal effort that makes the brakes on the Ford feel less powerful. On hydraulic brakes, you’re actually generating hydraulic pressure, aided by the brake booster. With air brakes, you’re opening the treadle valve and admitting air to actuate the brakes but not generating any of the braking force.

You might be surprised to learn that braking performance isn’t just whatever the manufacturer decides to deliver. There are minimum performance standards that must be certified. They are spelled out in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Air brakes are FMVSS 121 while hydraulic brakes are in FMVSS 105. I don’t suggest reading them unless you have severe insomnia. Both require a chassis such as the Ford or Freightliner to stop from 60mph in a little over 300ft while at maximum GVWR. The air brake standard requires a slightly shorter stop but also permits up to 0.45 seconds for air pressure to build and the brakes to fully activate. The hydraulic brake standard does not permit any activation delay, so actually requires slightly shorter stopping distances from pedal application to standstill.

[deckape]

My suggestions : Centerline bed , livable with slides in , residential frig , Entertains 6 , dining for 4 , sleeps two , no dinet, diesel pusher , 35' -40' , fuel at truck stops or large gas stations , tow a car for touring . Good luck . Came for boating for 45 years and living aboard for 6 years .

[NC25T]

Good and bad with and RV…… drive as many as you can from different manufacturers, lengths, power trains etc.

After driving dozens of RV’s we ended up going with one that wasn’t even on my radar, also larger and out of our original budget.

If you plan on driving 10k miles or more a year a diesel might be a better option however there is always the risk of costly repairs…. We went the diesel route this past February.

Gas coaches have improved significantly in how they drive closing the gap to a entry lever DP. However a mid/upper end DP, especially a tag coach there is no comparison. Which goes back to how much you will be driving and also where you will drive.

Biggest two complaints I had with my last gas coach was difficulty getting fuel & power.

Present DP is a piece of cake getting fuel and not only has plenty to go up the hill…. But the engine brakes coming down make life so much less stressful

[MEC57]

Thank you all for the great insights! We landed on a Tiffin AllegroBus 43QGP. Love the floorplan and the driving experience is so much better than our gasser. Looking forward to completing the transaction.

We'll have a really nice 2006 Fleetwood Southwind 37C for sale here shortly in case you all know of anyone looking. Totally updated with lots of nice and useful upgrades!

[KingKid]

Originally Posted by MEC57

Thank you all for the great insights! We landed on a Tiffin AllegroBus 43QGP. Love the floorplan and the driving experience is so much better than our gasser. Looking forward to completing the transaction.

We'll have a really nice 2006 Fleetwood Southwind 37C for sale here shortly in case you all know of anyone looking. Totally updated with lots of nice and useful upgrades!

Any pics?

[MEC57]

Hi King Kid,

I'd be happy to get you pictures and information via email. Posting pictures here is quite cumbersome, so please PM me with your email address for more.

Thanks for your interest.