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07-05-2012, 09:49 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,599
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Hi Robert L,
For me, I contact the dealer, manufacturer and anyone else who can provide information that allows an opinion to be formed and decisions to be made. If possible, consider putting the coach order on hold or canceling the order until you get the information you need to proceed.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
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07-05-2012, 09:58 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSchleder
It means your diesel engine will require the use of DEF. There will be a separate tank which holds enough DEF for several thousand miles before you get a dash signal to add more fluid. Your engine will be very clean burning and you'll need to spend $10-$12 per gal every so often to buy a gal of DEF.
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Hardly $10-12. NAPA in Iowa City list at $4.39/gal NAPA AUTO PARTS | FIND A PRODUCTand the national average is $2.88/gal. DEF Pump Price Up 15 Cents Since February - Truckinginfo.com. Pliot Flying J list at the pump price in Iowa at $2.899/ gal. Pilot Flying J
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07-05-2012, 10:36 AM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: On the road when we can
Posts: 47
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I will NEVER buy a coach with an engine that uses DEF. I'll keep buying used as long as I'm motorhoming.
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07-05-2012, 10:44 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DFW, Tex-US
Posts: 6,196
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I've not had an issue with my new def equipped 400 hp 800 lbft 6.7L engine
nor has my buddy in his new duramax..unfortunately the EPA has run amok with junk science and those of you that 'worship' global warming so it's here to stay.
I usually use the def pumps as it's easier to fill and cheaper @ about $2.79/gal....
__________________
'11 Monaco Diplomat 43DFT RR10R pushed by a '14 Jeep Wrangler JKU. History.. 5'ers: 13 Redwood 38gk(junk!), 11 MVP Destiny, Open Range TT, Winn LeSharo, C's, popups, vans, tents...
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07-05-2012, 10:51 AM
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#19
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Moderator Emeritus
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,203
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This DEF argument stuff is just SCARY. Reminds me of the MTBE fiasco.
The government demands something (this time for pollution and efficiency standards) - but only time will tell if the solution is worse than the original issue.
Seems like I feel better and better about getting a gas powered MH everyday and I will be keeping my "old" Dodge with a 5.9 running as long as I can.
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07-05-2012, 11:17 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Forest River Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida / Georgia / Michigan
Posts: 481
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I find it interesting that some folks seem to feel that DEF should be avoided at all costs! Not that that is a bad thing, but if it is from a cost perspective it's not really a big issue. I own a 2012 coach with DEF and it is a non issue for me. In the scope of all other costs and time spent to maintain the system it's minimal.
DEF has a burn rate of about 2% vs Diesel so when I burn through my 100 gallon tank I will have used about 2 gallons of DEF. If diesel is $3.75 per gallon to re- fill the tank will be $375.00. To fill the DEF at $2,88 per gallon it would cost an additional $5.76 to top it off.
After 3,300 miles I have burned about 308 gallons of diesel and my DEF tank, which holds 12 gallons, is at 1/2 full. At $3.75 I have spent over $1,100 on diesel and to refill the DEF it will cost $17.28 at $2.88. All of these miles have been driven in tempatures around 90° or higher.
No soot on toad, back of coach, etc.
__________________
Marc & Jan
Molly, Abby & Katie | The Cocker K-9 Kids!|Toad 2014 Cadillac SRX
2012 Berkshire 360FWS, Brake Buddy Vantage|Wineguard Travler SK-3005 |TST 507 TPMS
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07-05-2012, 11:42 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab0088
This DEF argument stuff is just SCARY. Reminds me of the MTBE fiasco.
The government demands something (this time for pollution and efficiency standards) - but only time will tell if the solution is worse than the original issue.
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Comparing aqueous urea to MTBE?? They're not even in the same league since, unlike MTBE's penchant for leaching into and polluting ground water, dry and aqueous urea has intentionally been placed on/in the ground for many, many decades. It's used by farmers as a nitrogen-based fertilizer - see HERE.
Rusty
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07-05-2012, 01:03 PM
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#22
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Moderator Emeritus
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 19,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyJC
Comparing aqueous urea to MTBE?? They're not even in the same league since, unlike MTBE's penchant for leaching into and polluting ground water, dry and aqueous urea has intentionally been placed on/in the ground for many, many decades. It's used by farmers as a nitrogen-based fertilizer - see HERE.
Rusty
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I was just saying that Government can legislate some bad stuff...
Too bad Navistar had a good idea that they couldn't execute
BTW - MTBE was supposed to be our friend too...an organic compound, used as a simple and less poisonous lead alternative in fuel for older engines and as a solvent...it is derived from natural gas, and wasn't such a villain in the recent past.
Quote:
" According to the IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen. MTBE can be tasted in water at concentrations of 5 – 15 µg/l. [12]
Methyl tert-butyl ether - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for agriculture uses, I remember a little thing called DDT being used by farmers too.
So, we will take the DEF - inject it into the Diesel exhaust via the SCR (multilayered Catalysts)...and Viola' - happy healthy exhaust.
We like to think we know everything - but we don't.
I'm just sayin'...
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07-05-2012, 01:22 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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HERE is the MSDS on DEF.
Rusty
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07-05-2012, 01:52 PM
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#24
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Moderator Emeritus
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Coastal Campers Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert L
As someone who has a 2013 Holiday Rambler with the Maxxforce 10 engine on order with the factory, what does this mean for me?
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Robert, That won't mean anything for you. Just go ahead and use the engine as intended and you'll be fine.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
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07-05-2012, 08:21 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62_inrightlane
I find it interesting that some folks seem to feel that DEF should be avoided at all costs! Not that that is a bad thing, but if it is from a cost perspective it's not really a big issue. I own a 2012 coach with DEF and it is a non issue for me. In the scope of all other costs and time spent to maintain the system it's minimal.
DEF has a burn rate of about 2% vs Diesel so when I burn through my 100 gallon tank I will have used about 2 gallons of DEF. If diesel is $3.75 per gallon to re- fill the tank will be $375.00. To fill the DEF at $2,88 per gallon it would cost an additional $5.76 to top it off.
After 3,300 miles I have burned about 308 gallons of diesel and my DEF tank, which holds 12 gallons, is at 1/2 full. At $3.75 I have spent over $1,100 on diesel and to refill the DEF it will cost $17.28 at $2.88. All of these miles have been driven in tempatures around 90° or higher.
No soot on toad, back of coach, etc.
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Right on.
We've got 14K miles on 2011 Itasca Ellipse, the cost of DEF, even buying the expensive 2.5gal containers vs filling at the pump is essentially lost behind the decimal in the cost of operating one of these rigs. I lived thru the early emmissions on cars in the 70's and was initially somewhat worried about 2010 EPA for diesels, but we've had no issues. So far still goes in the "we'd do it again" category. Time and mileage will tell.
Todd
2011 Itasca Ellipse 42QD
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07-05-2012, 10:09 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 521
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I was told that the chassis cost to the motorcoach builders went up $15,000 for the added cost of the DEP system. If that is true, there is a significant cost for DEP. If not, I have been misled.
__________________
Joe in Seattle; winter at Motorcoach CC, Indio, CA
2015 Essex 4503
2019 Lincoln Nautilus toad
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07-06-2012, 02:36 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,599
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__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
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07-06-2012, 02:39 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 13,599
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DEF was $2.69/gallon today at Pilot, just west of St. Louis on I44, exit 256/257.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
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