DEF Sensors complaint filed with NHTSA

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by ROUGHRIDER3

If the NHTSA is aware of the problem, they are, why has it not been rectified? Many people are being effected by this problem, OTR truckers, construction equipment, Motorhomes, pick-up trucks and more. A problem exist, but they could care less apparently.

I rather doubt they "care less", but regulatory agencies are not characterized by departmental emotion.

As an agency, they have to prioritize which claims to investigate, and then estimate the impact on safety; severity of an incident, statistical likelihood of an incident, and variables that change the basic calculus. After that, there is either more investigation or a review of new complaints, and usually a report. When death or serious injury is likely in a significant percentage of incidents, an agency will move faster. The potential for an incident has less weight than an actual incident when it comes to complaint triage.

Any resources about incidents causing personal injury or property damage resulting from a de-rate condition caused by the DEF sensor/digi-thing?

[ROUGHRIDER3]

Complaints have been going on for approximatrly 6 years, I would think that is plenty of time to take action to correct problem. I had a manufacturing business for 49 years and any complaints were addressed daily, not years later.

NHSTA should be pro-active, not re-active.

[gballenger]

My DEF tank is showing 3/8 full, even though it is completely full. It gradually goes up to 5/8 full when driving (just locally). But I'm too worried about having a complete failure while I'm on the road to go anywhere. I've found some DEF heads on Ebay: $1800-$3,000. I called Freightliner, and they have none available to dealers. Has anyone gotten more updates into when and how this problem will be resolved?

[Wboggess]

The DEF system is a very long time problem that I had with my 2014 Entegra. I replaced parts coast coast, including derating in Canada and the most desolate roads in Montana.
Talking to many over the road truckers they or their business mechanics disable the system because they can’t afford to travel at 5mph derated or broke down. Their response to isn’t it illegal, they reply, “ what repair shop will turn you in once it’s discovered”? They won’t be in business long once word gets around that they snitched.
I have been told that Fire Engines, Emergency vehicles and school buses will keep on running properly since you may sacrifice a human life if you can’t get to your emergency due to engine derate .
A motor home is a small part of Diesel motors manufactures and their customer base is small …..
I do wish you well Don Quixote on your quest.

[jerryd13]

Friends, Today we are faced with liars, low lifes who simply lie to us. When you buy an RV, this is what you get, fiorget about the bullshit, stop listinng to many corporate created lie's, get what you get, disreguard
The lie's and bullship, me I sm s 76 year old American
Telling you the truth, they all lie, do he aware.
God bless
Jerryd13

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by gballenger

My DEF tank is showing 3/8 full, even though it is completely full. It gradually goes up to 5/8 full when driving (just locally). But I'm too worried about having a complete failure while I'm on the road to go anywhere. I've found some DEF heads on Ebay: $1800-$3,000. I called Freightliner, and they have none available to dealers. Has anyone gotten more updates into when and how this problem will be resolved?

Do some more looking around iRV2 for "DEF head simulator". It's a small computer (Raspberry Pi) that plugs into the DEF head wire harness and gives "within range data" to the ECM. It does not bypass the DEF injection system or delete it or do anything that defeats the antipollution system - it only tells the ECM that DEF temp, quality, and quantity are normal. You'll still need to make sure your DEF tank is filled. And you'd use this only if your DEF head fails.

That said, this lack of parts must be a new thing, as users have mostly stopped posting about parts being unavailable.

[sally.moore]

I have had 2 DEF head failures. 2017 Tiffin Phaeton. I'm not sure where I heard this but somewhere I heard that it is an emission problem and warrantied for 10 years. Both of mine, had Tiffin overnight the part to a Cummins dealer who installed it. I did not pay for anything both times..Maybe someone can check into the 10 year warranty thing.

[gballenger]

Originally Posted by gballenger

My DEF tank is showing 3/8 full, even though it is completely full. It gradually goes up to 5/8 full when driving (just locally). But I'm too worried about having a complete failure while I'm on the road to go anywhere. I've found some DEF heads on Ebay: $1800-$3,000. I called Freightliner, and they have none available to dealers. Has anyone gotten more updates into when and how this problem will be resolved?

I was able to contact my local Freightliner Servicer in Fort Myers. Very pleased with their parts department. They were able to locate a spare DEF head. I bought it before I left "just in case." After about 1/2 -1 hour of driving, the DEF tank started reading normally. The guage is just really slow to indicate the accurate level. I'm keeping the spare anyway. It was an expensive part, but the dealer could only find one in stock in Orlando. Maybe there are more out there. And maybe, given the dearth of posts, this issue is not as prevalent as before.

[hrt]

Originally Posted by gballenger

I was able to contact my local Freightliner Servicer in Fort Myers. Very pleased with their parts department. They were able to locate a spare DEF head. I bought it before I left "just in case." After about 1/2 -1 hour of driving, the DEF tank started reading normally. The guage is just really slow to indicate the accurate level. I'm keeping the spare anyway. It was an expensive part, but the dealer could only find one in stock in Orlando. Maybe there are more out there. And maybe, given the dearth of posts, this issue is not as prevalent as before.

Yes, the slow gauge action never happened to me before in 5 years of owning this thing, but did happen on my last trip. DEF had gotten to below 1/4. I filled it. Continued on my drive, gauge did not rise at all. After 50-100 miles I got a low def warning. A few hundred miles later, it switched to VERY low DEF warning, and the red light on the gauge came on. Stopped at a rest area, but it was full, so drove on. I drove another 80 miles to the next Pilot, figuring "well this is it.". Pulled in to refuel, and as I stopped, but before I turned the engine off, the warning went away and gauge jumped to almost full.


Then went to sleep and drove another 5 hours the next day with no issues. However, this is how it started in 2019 or 2020 when the DEF head went bad. After the first warning light I drove over 1500 miles with no (ok, occasional) warnings before, after a month of sitting, it told me "lol you're not going anywhere". So I'm not confident that everything is all right.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by hrt

However, this is how it started in 2019 or 2020 when the DEF head went bad. After the first warning light I drove over 1500 miles with no (ok, occasional) warnings before, after a month of sitting, it told me "lol you're not going anywhere". So I'm not confident that everything is all right.

It's possible that you got an early replacement version, some of which had a high failure rate, too.

Probably too soon to declare this dragon slain, but there are far, far fewer reports of failures than 2, 3 years ago.

Good luck and let us know if your DEF head fails and you report it to the NHTSA.

[jerryd13]

We will need to fight on, but we need everyone, farmers have a partial solution, delayed DERATE, Fire Trucks, Ambulances, I have no idea, but most of us are in no mans land, The DEF manufacturers do not help, the many engine manufacturers are trying but the Feds are such low life people, who have NO ENSITIVE TO DO ANYTHING. Only the DEF vehicle owners, operators care. You may have a Fluid problem, a device problem, on any Diesel engine, on any chassis, Freight liner, Spartan or whomever, it is a problem all over America. I am shutdown right now, NO IDEA WHAT THE ISSUE IS, DERATED, AND WAITING TO GET IT TOWED AFTER CALLING THE WONDERFUL USELESS (AAA) A 50 year membership, and no tow vehicle after 24 hours. I drove it at 5 mph to a safe place in Vero Beach Florida while I make some arrangements to get it towed by ??? to a Freightliner /Cummins facility in Ft. Pierce, Fl. A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE.

[moderator edit]

[Solo_RV_Guy]

I recently had a chat with a member of the NTSB regarding the DEF head issue. His comment was "we make recommendations to the NHTSA or other regulatory agency when a transportation failure results in death or multiple injuries, or when the incident causes environmental impact. The NHTSA takes action when people die or there is demonstrable likelihood people will die."


I'm not sure how that makes me feel, vis a vis DEF head issues, but it indicated to me that the problem did not lead to an extensive investigation, but did lead to inter-agency communications (EPA) to come to the ECM programming compromise.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy

I recently had a chat with a member of the NTSB regarding the DEF head issue. His comment was "we make recommendations to the NHTSA or other regulatory agency when a transportation failure results in death or multiple injuries, or when the incident causes environmental impact. The NHTSA takes action when people die or there is demonstrable likelihood people will die."

Yet the NHTSA just forced Ford to recall their new F-53 V8 motorhome chassis because the rear sway bar bolts were loosening up and the bolts and brackets were dropping on the road.

The recall was not due to the reduced driving stability but simply due to metal pieces-parts being dropped on the road.

Ray

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by NXR

Yet the NHTSA just forced Ford to recall their new F-53 V8 motorhome chassis because the rear sway bar bolts were loosening up and the bolts and brackets were dropping on the road.

The recall was not due to the reduced driving stability but simply due to metal pieces-parts being dropped on the road.

Ray

Note the the person I talked to was from another agency so the perception of NHTSA's 'actionability' may not reflect the policies of the agency, but I don't believe I was being lied to.

But in general, having stuff fall off any vehicle is a good reason for a recall, IMHO. I think the pollution abatement systems on diesel engines needs to just work, without excuses, too.