DEF Sensors complaint filed with NHTSA

[brobox]

UPDATE
There was a response from the NHTSA that the complaint filed was not thrown in the trash. There is an office of Defects. If there are enough others filings I am sure it will move forward. If not, well I tried.

Good Day Mr. Chuck,

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Vehicle Safety Hotline Information Center.

We have received your email in regards to ODI#11383615 and it has been forwarded to the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) to be added to your complaint. However, if you need additional information please feel free to contact us at 1-888-327-4236.


Thank you,


NHTSA.dot.gov Response Team

[nomad bull]

I do not care much for them but perhaps a class action would have merit here.

[brobox]

Larry, you have stated it perfectly. With all of my research and lack of answers from those at the top, the NHTSA was the only avenue I could find. If they will do a national recall for power seats because one person got a hot seat. One would think they would gather the date to put pressure on the manufacture(s) of a system that are leaving people stranded. Our MH's do not even have a mileage system to notify us how far we can go to get to safety. How many new diesel MH owners that are not on forums even know what derate is? Yet cars and pickups have count down mileage displayed how far before derate. Even a brand new teenage driver with his first car, if it's diesel, is alerted to get to a dealer in xxx miles.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by nomad bull

I do not care much for them but perhaps a class action would have merit here.

That takes a well organized effort and lots of money. So far neither has come forward. Notice that most Class Actions are filed by insurance companies, etc, that have suffered large losses, or Attorneys seeing a very large paycheck in their futures.

[NXR]

If they will do a national recall for power seats because one person got a hot seat.

You may not understand the recall process.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls#:~:tex...%20by%20NHTSA.

A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. Most decisions to conduct a recall and remedy a safety defect are made voluntarily by manufacturers prior to any involvement by NHTSA.

A mis-routed propane line for the fridge in the slide was reported by one dealer on the Georgetown product line. Forest River initiated an internal investigation that showed "inconsistent" routing of the propane line by their installers. A few days later their Recall Committee voted to have an NHTSA recall.

Ray

[buddy110]

I reached out to NIRVC to see if they know whether my failed def head which was replaced pre delivery was a gen 5 or 6. I will keep the board informed. I suspect it was a 5.

[brobox]

Ray, that is good information to know. It is too bad that Spartan is not showing the professionalism that other manufactures are instead leaving customers to fend for themselves. A DEF sensor may not singe someone's butt, but where people have been left stranded may not be the healthiest environment either.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by brobox

Ray, that is good information to know. It is too bad that Spartan is not showing the professionalism that other manufactures are instead leaving customers to fend for themselves. A DEF sensor may not singe someone's butt, but where people have been left stranded may not be the healthiest environment either.

I suspect it would have to be the DEF head manufacturer, not a chassis manufacturer, that could initiate a recall.

Some do the right thing by customers and others have to be forced into it.

I've never read anything about this issue in the RV Travel newsletter I get each weekend so perhaps you could contact them with links to various reports, a summary of what's going on, and the dollar and human cost if known. That fellow loves to tweak the noses of manufacturers and also sponsors the Facebook "RV Horror Stories" group.

So essentially write the story for them or at least give them enough data so they could write this issue up. List the motorhome manufacturers and the chassis manufacturers known to have customers with this failure. Mention the various "generations" and what the root issue is believed to be, if known. Briefly describe what "derate" is and the safety impact. KEEP IT FACTUAL AND NON-EMOTIONAL. From what I've read in that newsletter I suspect they will add that aspect.

Definitely mention the process to file an NHTSA complaint and what info to include: Make, model, model year, symptoms, cost, etc.

State that you know multiple people (meaning more than 1) have filed an NHTSA complaint and you'd like to get the story out so more people will file complaints since the manufacturers seem to be ignoring these failures (if that is accurate).

The easier you make it for them to do a story the more likelihood they will. Here is their contact page: https://www.rvtravel.com/contact-rv-travel-2/

Right now you're talking to the choir, so to speak, and that is a pretty limited audience.

Good luck,

Ray

[ronboatplane]

Originally Posted by brobox

If a person has gone into limp mode on an interstate I would think that is a safety issue. Having been there before on another issue, it is dangerous as hell.

I was going through Nashville in 5 o clock traffic when my gen 5 failed. Red lights and blaring horns going off is a major distraction and can cause accidents. I am disheartened to learn that a gen six like my replacement is suspect now. How can we protect ourselves from further dangerous situations.

[hrt]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

Please take this post the right way, I am not questioning anyone's decisions or experiences. However, many have mentioned the safety issue of derates and shutdowns due to DEF sensor problems. My question is, isn't there always a warning that a problem exists and isn't it made clear that a derate or shutdown can/will occur?.

No.


The first time I got this warning, I called Freightliner, and they told me to just keep driving to see if it was crystalization in the lines that would fix it self . It did.


Then it periodically came back and went away.


No warning came which said "you have N miles before derate" or even "derate is coming." Derate just came, unexpectedly (before this topic became so popular on the forum



All this would be not quite as bad if it was easy to go to a dealer and get it checked out. But I did go to several dealers, each of which either wouldn't work on it, or required me to leave it (our home) there for a week before they would even look at it. (Some dealers take reservations, the ones within range did not).


So sure, for each party involved (Newmar, freightliner, freightliner authorized dealers, cummins, sensor mfg, etc) you can help them pass the buck by saying "if only.." but really, they all suck, they all are partly to blame. Oh yeah. And the epa. And the people who say "it's ok it only happens to a few people, not me, so mandate it now and technology will catch up."

[brobox]

Originally Posted by ronboatplane

I was going through Nashville in 5 o clock traffic when my gen 5 failed. Red lights and blaring horns going off is a major distraction and can cause accidents. I am disheartened to learn that a gen six like my replacement is suspect now. How can we protect ourselves from further dangerous situations.

Please file a complaint of your situation with the NHTSA listed in post #1. If we don't make it known, nothing will be done. If they can't fix the problem, at least give us count down mileage before derate until they do.
As of now we have nothing. It only takes a few minutes to file the report.

[HDGoose]

Originally Posted by USMCRET

I’m a little reluctant to weigh in here as I own neither an Entegra nor a MH with DEF (yet), but I think the safety aspect has to carry the water with these complaints.

Only after someone dies.

[Zarbek]

Shaw Development makes the Gen 6 DEF head. They do not make the Gen 5. I'm willing to bet that Spartan moved away from the Gen 5 maker due to failures.

I had a Gen 5 fail and now have a Gen 6. We shall see.

Dan
2018 King Aire
2018 Equinox toad
SW FL

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by brobox

Larry,

I understand what you are saying and it's part of what I hope the NHTSA will investigate.
1. we have no mileage countdown as autos have to know when the shut down will happen.
2. it has been reported here that shut down mileage can be between 30 and 300 miles.
3. if that unknown mileage is on the Alcan highway, or crossing the NV desert in 120 degrees, and the unit goes into derate, is that safe? We hope we have enough warning, but do we? Lots of miles in those situation where a person will not make it across.
4. Some of the new coach owners are just that, brand new and don't have a clue what derate is. By the time the red check engine light comes on, it to late, they are into limp mode. What if that is in LA traffic? Where does one pull a 65 ft MH and toad over in LA traffic?

So far I am not able to get any answers from the manufactures, maybe the Federal Govt will investigate and find out why it's happening to begin with. If other do not wish to proceed, there is not much I can do. If there is not enough complaints, the action will fall on deaf ears and it's back to square one with nothing being accomplished.

I just received a NHTSA recall #20V-600 on my 21 Cornerstone for the power drivers seat yesterday. Really? is that going to leave me stranded anywhere? Maybe an inconvenience, but certainly not a safety issue as much as the engine shutting down. I could pull the fuse on the drives seat and drive it until the wheels fell off without it being a safety issue now that know. Owners cannot do that with the new style DEF sensors

I think you mistaken as it is a safety issue if you read the possible outcome if this is not corrected is melted insulation on wires. Which could cause hazardous smoke and possibly fire. There was a post in this forum, if I recall it correctly, about this happening to an owner under the driver's seat not once but twice. It was fixed by the manufacturer both times. Unfortunately the final time he was in a construction zone and no place to stop in heavy traffic. Brand new high end MH i don't recall who but they promised to make good on the damage and his trouble though I don't recall that final outcome. So the point is NHSTA's recalls are usually spot on, problem is it can take time and they usually prefer the manufacturers to volunteerily do the recall before they do.
On another note Great job to fill a complaint with NHTSA on this DEF sensor issue, I've not have that issue yet but I hope others that do join in and file. I've read several threads on this now Thanks