DEF Sensors complaint filed with NHTSA

[Mgtv53]

Originally Posted by brobox

After several attempts to contact Shaw Development the manufactures of the DEF sensor that are failing I filed a formal complaint with NHTSA this morning. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/?

I hope others that are having failures will come forward with NHTSA to hopefully help others that are or will have the problem of failed DEF sensor. After two DEF sensor failures, I am not sure it is a one time thing. the manufactures don't seem to care. Attached is a copy of the complaint.

I have owned both a 2019 and the new 2021 Entegra Cornerstone motor homes. On both motorhomes, the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) sensor have failed in less that 2,000 miles. When DEF sensors fail the engine can go into derate which is 5 mph in less that a couple hundred miles. This problem is leaving many large diesel engine owned vehicles stranded, from motorhomes to large over the road trucks. I have contacted Spartan Motors the manufacture of the chassis, which referred me to Shaw Development, the manufacture of the DEF sensor. Shaw Development refuses to take calls or emails requesting information regarding this problem. The DEF sensors was a regulation passed by EPA in 2016, stating the DEF concentration be measured in the DEF tanks of vehicles. However the DEF sensor manufactures cannot seems to manufacture a part that will work and not put engine into derate. Shaw Development is currently at the sixth generation of the DEF sensor which are still failing on brand new 2021 year motor homes. That is six attempts to make a part that continues to leave people on long trips stranded. With all of the contacts I have made regarding this problem, nothing is being done except passing the buck. This link is a small sample of what users have been facing with this problem. Many posts like this are all over the internet. https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/mor...ns-516724.html The photo shows the DEF units that have to be replaced at Cummins Diesel Engine shops. This is a major problem with all diesel engines. EPA requirements that the chassis manufactures cannot meet leaving the owners stranded. The DEF sensor by Shaw Development being purchased by Spartan Motors Chassis, Inc are now on the sixth edition with the failure rate continuing. My repair date with Cummins Service in Ft Myers FL was Dec 2, 2020 and a new 2021 model motorhome

Is the sensor from China ?

[Mgtv53]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Chuck, maybe you should look into the Lemon Laws.

Campers are not covered by lemon law so I was told by service company.does anyone know if Mercedes sprinter has this problem

[augerdogger]

I have 20k miles on my '19 Spartan K3 chassis and only 1 DEF sensor failure. This seems to be a common failure and includes big trucks. Mine failed when I started the engine to leave from home. Downside was failures are so common that you have to wait on availability.

[elyost3]

Remove it.You are all chasing your tails and the bureaucracy won't help you.Yes I know what the feds say about this.We are put upon to play by their rules,with no solutions.At some point you have to do whats best for you and that VERY EXSPENSIVE RIG.Good luck.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by augerdogger

I have 20k miles on my '19 Spartan K3 chassis and only 1 DEF sensor failure. This seems to be a common failure and includes big trucks. Mine failed when I started the engine to leave from home. Downside was failures are so common that you have to wait on availability.

If enough people will file, hopefully we can put an end to this madness. After two failurse on K3's I know for a fact that Spartan doesn't care about any of us.

[CMHMike]

I've had 2 def head failures on a 2017 Newmar on a Freightliner chassis. Filed with NHTSA today. Each head has lasted about 15,000 miles or 2 years. The next one will be out of the 5-year emissions warranty.

[Clayobx]

Originally Posted by elyost3

Remove it.You are all chasing your tails and the bureaucracy won't help you.Yes I know what the feds say about this.We are put upon to play by their rules,with no solutions.At some point you have to do whats best for you and that VERY EXSPENSIVE RIG.Good luck.

I believe this above point may be the ONLY way a coach owner can properly protect their safety and VERY EXPENSIVE PURCHASE. LETS GET REAL! We ain’t talking cheap crap.!” Yet the seller’s, manufacturer’s of the box and chassis folks don’t give a s...! Period! Not going into I’ll never purchase a new coach I won’t, I have DEF, Spartan chassis, and not experiencing this issue. I’m a 2012 owner and I hope, “it” does not exist with my ISL. WHY NOT?...Spartan chassis owners, Freightliner owners, take your matter into hand, what is safe for you! Purchase an original DEF sensor such as Chuck’s 2014 classic? I have that system, it’s simple, need DEF? Fill it up. Not a hard solution to replace as these sensors are easily accessed? Mine is. Or, is their a change in engineering that places these 2020 sensors non or hard to service??? Plug and play? Thor/Entegra cannot legally make this modification but by golly... some wire nips, heat shrink and an hours work solve this issue. Hopefully! BTW Chuck, the publishing lead to...Chuck Woodbury @ RV Travel is a true and tried lead Their editors are working very hard to make manufacturer’s, RVIA accountable. Chuck Woodbury would be accommodating as this is NOT an issue to be taken lightly. No not at all!! Ie...I’ve just had a mild stroke, my derate is activated and I’m on the backside of the Mountain with no cell service, death is evident. IMO this situation, with no recognizable standard of procedure, as expressed by many owners, constitutes high danger for operators both in OTR, diesel owners of working trucks and recreational vehicles.

[bgkoontz1]

Until the govt and manufacturers figure out how to make a reliable system eliminate it.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by bgkoontz1

Until the govt and manufacturers figure out how to make a reliable system eliminate it.

That is not as easy as it sounds. Everything runs through the Cummins ECM computer. Shut one thing down, it shuts the entire engine operating system down. I spent hours on trucker forums, watch YouTube videos and nothing on eliminating the new DEF sensor systems. I even spent $200. on a code reader trying to eliminate the derate codes, no can do. EPA has those locked into the operating system.

[buddy110]

I confirmed today that my coach was originally fitted with a gen 5 def head. That's the head that failed in Atlanta pre delivery. I further confirmed that it was replaced with a gen 6. Still filing a report, but first wanted to get my facts straight

[brobox]

Originally Posted by buddy110

I confirmed today that my coach was originally fitted with a gen 5 def head. That's the head that failed in Atlanta pre delivery. I further confirmed that it was replaced with a gen 6. Still filing a report, but first wanted to get my facts straight

Thanks for that update Bruce. Here is my thought on the DEF sensors. We are currently up to 6th generation in just 4 years. If govt questions are not asked of them, we will have Gen 7's Gen 8's etc.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by Mgtv53

Campers are not covered by lemon law so I was told by service company.does anyone know if Mercedes sprinter has this problem

Lemon laws are state laws and there are 50 of them, so they vary. So far as I know in most states RV’s are covered under the lemon law for the chassis and running gear, but not the house or living features. In that case, these DEF problems would be covered if you meet the other requirements of the law.

[Zarbek]

My complaint has been filed with the NHTSA

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Lemon laws are state laws and there are 50 of them, so they vary. So far as I know in most states RV’s are covered under the lemon law for the chassis and running gear, but not the house or living features. In that case, these DEF problems would be covered if you meet the other requirements of the law.

My information says only 7 states include motorized RVs in full in their lemon laws. Nineteen include only the chassis portion (i.e. not the living quarters or “RV stuff”). The remaining 25 (including DC) don’t include motorized RVs at all.Talking about non-motorized RVs, as in travel trailers, fifth-wheels. In general, the states that include towable RVs at all only include chassis portions, which might include things like the axles and frame, but not the water tanks, air conditioners, or other appliances. There's lists out that that tell you who does and who doesn’t you just got to search for it.