DEF Sensors complaint filed with NHTSA

[Chris Rieder]

Originally Posted by brobox

Jerry, I am hope we get enough complaints filed that things like this will come out in their investigation. I did forget to mention more about no warning before limp mode.


I will take Tom's advise and put this on the main forum later today in hope there are more response.

Frightliner of Slidell Louisiana informed me My DEF Dosing Pump needs replacing. Check Engine Light came on showing low def, tank was full and dash indecator showed full and tank was full. Repair will cost $2,900.00 I have A DS 2014 with 36,000 miles.
This happened in Knoxville Tennessee, they had same diagnosis no parts and said they were on back order. We made it home 600 miles, on a wing and a prayer.
Very DEF Disappointed ☹️

[Dr. Mike]

Originally Posted by rprkbr

Just had the best experience at National indoor RV centers in Dallas! Traveling on the weekend we got a check engine light and a malfunction light on our 2016 Cornerstone. Yes it was a d.e. f. issue! A call into Cummins after hours said that we could be deregulated at any moment! We were headed to the mountains (to the aim rally in Colorado) from Florida so this was a big issue obviously. 1 1/2 hours out from Dallas I decided to reach out to Brett Davis and the after-hours emergency number with Atlanta nirvc which ended up to be Justin Townley . After great discussion of the code we were getting we decided to go into Dallas(nirvc). Brett and Justin set us up with a very qualified technician named Paul. Monday at 8 a.m. Paul came out to the RV and within an hour determined a sensor was bad on the d e f system. With no availability in the United States for this sensor. ( yes I called customer care with Cummins and there was truly no availability) I personally went to Napa and bought a aftermarket sensor that was available on the Shelf.(not a def head) Nirvc was very happy to install this mind you I was outside of warranty. Within 2 hours on Tuesday we were back on the road all problems solved! A big shout-out to Brett Davis , Justin and of course Paul the technician at Dallas! I will purchase any future RVs from National indoor let me see you get this kind of service from any other dealer in the country. I will post pictures below of the faulty sensor.

This just begs the question: Why aren’t all dealerships like NIRVC?

My answer: Awesome leadership team combined with an awesome staff that yields customers for life.

[Turbojack]

Originally Posted by Chris Rieder

Frightliner of Slidell Louisiana informed me My DEF Dosing Pump needs replacing. Check Engine Light came on showing low def, tank was full and dash indecator showed full and tank was full. Repair will cost $2,900.00 I have A DS 2014 with 36,000 miles.
This happened in Knoxville Tennessee, they had same diagnosis no parts and said they were on back order. We made it home 600 miles, on a wing and a prayer.
Very DEF Disappointed ☹️

Have you ever changed out the def filter? R.Wold had his pump go out and they told him cause was his filter was not changed.

I just changed the filter in mine for first time with 40+k miles on coach.

[Xmcdog]

Originally Posted by rprkbr

Just had the best experience at National indoor RV centers in Dallas! Traveling on the weekend we got a check engine light and a malfunction light on our 2016 Cornerstone. Yes it was a d.e. f. issue! A call into Cummins after hours said that we could be deregulated at any moment! We were headed to the mountains (to the aim rally in Colorado) from Florida so this was a big issue obviously. 1 1/2 hours out from Dallas I decided to reach out to Brett Davis and the after-hours emergency number with Atlanta nirvc which ended up to be Justin Townley . After great discussion of the code we were getting we decided to go into Dallas(nirvc). Brett and Justin set us up with a very qualified technician named Paul. Monday at 8 a.m. Paul came out to the RV and within an hour determined a sensor was bad on the d e f system. With no availability in the United States for this sensor. ( yes I called customer care with Cummins and there was truly no availability) I personally went to Napa and bought a aftermarket sensor that was available on the Shelf.(not a def head) Nirvc was very happy to install this mind you I was outside of warranty. Within 2 hours on Tuesday we were back on the road all problems solved! A big shout-out to Brett Davis , Justin and of course Paul the technician at Dallas! I will purchase any future RVs from National indoor let me see you get this kind of service from any other dealer in the country. I will post pictures below of the faulty sensor.

I wish we could have more posts like this one.

So many are so critical. These are very complex machines that have many systems and components. They are going to need repairs at times.

So to the OP, thank you.

[Mscotthill]

This is such a joke. All ghe money we spend on ghese hones for this to be ruining so many plans

[ThunderRidge]

Originally Posted by rprkbr

Wasn't the def head. Pictures below..Attachment 334164Attachment 334165

Any photos of the install?

[ArtJoyce]

Shelf life I assume part of that life it's time in the tank? I was looking at a Ford def shelf life chart vs temperature chart. It looks like at 104f degrees it has a life of 2 months???

Clink link to see: Ford Chart

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by ArtJoyce

Shelf life I assume part of that life it's time in the tank? I was looking at a Ford def shelf life chart vs temperature chart. It looks like at 104f degrees it has a life of 2 months???

Clink link to see: Ford Chart

Those are the numbers used by every manufacturer I’ve looked at. So yeah. 2 months when it’s hot out. It’s a fragile system that works fine in factories and power plants but is not ready for the mobile environment. It was implemented about a decade before it was ready (still isn’t IMHO) hence all these problems. It’s like that age old battle between architects and engineers- it’s easy to come up with nifty ideas, but not so simple making them work.

[F4Gary]

Do those tanks have drains on them so you can drain it before storage?

[sally.moore]

I am assuming not. When the head sensor had to be replaced on my 2017 Phaeton they had to take the tank out to get to the head. By they, Cummins. So went ahead and poured out DEF and cleaned out tank and added full tank of DEF.

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by sally.moore

I am assuming not. When the head sensor had to be replaced on my 2017 Phaeton they had to take the tank out to get to the head. By they, Cummins. So went ahead and poured out DEF and cleaned out tank and added full tank of DEF.

Same with me when my 2016 Phaeton had to have it all replaced a couple of months ago by Cummins but they only filled it half way....they replaced the Gen 4 with a Gen 6 sent by Gary at Tiffin. Quick turn before Engine de-rated so I was happy. Though a little apprehensive hearing of people having Gen 6 failures, as well.

[ronboatplane]

Just FYI. The change of heads is accomplished in most if not all Newmar s by pulling the assembly straight up. The tank does not require removal. When mine was replaced in the field it seemed a straight forward task while blocking off the coolant hoses to keep from leaking antifreeze. My 2019 DS was purchased new in 2020 off the dealer lot. My DEF head was gen 5 and now is a gen 6. The original was in service for about six months. The coach was on display for a year in Florida which might have contributed to problem but I will never know.

[hrt]

Originally Posted by ronboatplane

Just FYI. The change of heads is accomplished in most if not all Newmar s by pulling the assembly straight up. The tank does not require removal. When mine was replaced in the field it seemed a straight forward task while blocking off the coolant hoses to keep from leaking antifreeze. My 2019 DS was purchased new in 2020 off the dealer lot. My DEF head was gen 5 and now is a gen 6. The original was in service for about six months. The coach was on display for a year in Florida which might have contributed to problem but I will never know.

On my 2017 DS 4310, three sets of mobile techs said it was not possible. Two were Cummins, one freightliner certified. But maybe freightliner could have done it? I don't think so though.


In the end Cummins roadside reset the board so i could drive to a freightliner dealer where they replaced it. I didn't watch, but assumed they dropped it out the bottom.

[jerryd13]

As all of you know and are all trying, we must continue to demand that the following is accomplished.


1. That these DEF Systems provide an alarm, when a serious problem occurs making the DEF system inoperative. BUT, at the very least, have the program written to time out for a period of atleast 15-30 days to allow operator to get home and or to a place for repairs, BUT NEVER SHUT YOU DOWN ON THE ROAD OR LIMIT YOUR SPEED.


2. Provide all DEF system owners a real parts list and operating manual for the specific DEF system on their vehicle, MH, TRUCK, TRACTOR, CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT, ect. that can be used to get the system repaired without having to go to NASA o find the expertise to troubleshoot and repair.



3. Thank all of you who are trying to beat the drums to get help for this serious issue.