Diesel MH advice PLEASE!

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I agree. We started with a gas coach. Then had 3 DP. DP are a real headache to find repair and service centers that can fix everything in one stop. We now have a 38’ Winnebago gas. I like this coach the best of all of them. If anything goes wrong with the chassis I go to Ford. I am very impressed with the quality of Winnebago. Their tech support is the best. Every part on the coach has a part number sticker on it. Look at a used Winnebago.

Too often Winny is left out of many peoples selections - they are one of the Best Left!

Good info above - this comes from a Guy who Loves his Travel Supreme DP.

JMHO,

[jrtow]

As a mechanic for 35 years, working on cars, heavy truck, busses and Rv’s, I feel there is a lot to weigh! From a handy man perspective I would go with pre def and dpf, ( diesel particulate filter).
Many questions:
What kind of carrying capacity?
Are you in need of a trailer with car and stuff?
Do you want to tow a vehicle only?
What kind of camping do you want? IE: campgrounds with hookups, state parks w/o electric, boon-docking or seeing national parks?
Is fuel economy relevant?
How many miles a year?
Where to park when not using? ( keeping rodents out)
Do you plan full time and live in it 365?
How much will it depreciation? New vs used?
Maneuvering ability? Turning radius?
A 45’ won’t get in all parks?
A 30’ is limited in storage?
Will most meals be cooked in or outside? (food storage, refrigerator size?)
A pre emissions ISX Cummins with Allison 4 is a drivetrain that has minimal problems if serviced regularly, how ever the question is can you do some maintenance on the coach side or: lights, plumbing, cabinetry, electrical, ect? Fuel economy 4.5 - 6 mpg depending on loaded or lightly loaded, and terrain, speed and quality of fuel.
A new diesel 400 cummins 38- 40 could get 7-9 mpg however the possibilities of emissions failure could leave you stranded and need to be towed. It isn’t often, but it most likely will happen some day.
Cost wise and more facilities to get repairs, a new gas coach is less expensive to run.
Comfortable ride Monoco!
Power ISX600 4.5 - 6 mpg
Fuel Economy 400 cummins!

Originally Posted by Chief Deputy

My wife and I are now retired and ready to purchase our first diesel pusher. We are trying to decide between pre or post DEF. I read the forums here regularly and lately there seems to be several issues with emission control systems with DEF engines. From what I read it seems to suggest that every DEF model has or will have a very expensive emission failure. Is this overstated?

A little info might make it easier to answer. We like Newmar, Tiffin and Foretravel. We can spend up to 200k. If we by pre DEF we will have to put money into the unit to update interior and upgrade some equipment. If we buy newer (DEF engine), we would not have to put much more money in it for those reasons after purchase, however, it sounds like an expensive emission repair is almost guaranteed. We have a nice emergency fund set aside for emergency repairs and such but I have read people spending 10 to 15K for some emission control repairs. we could handle that if worst came to worst but I would rather not if I didn't have the same worry with a pre DEF DP.

For those of you with DEF engines, is EVERYONE having these problems? Or is this overstated by the few that have had these problems?

Thanks in advance for your response.

[Larrikin]

I have, and would buy pre-DEF. Less stuff to mess with. Also takes up space, and space for storage of the spare canister. As far as upgrading interiors, gadgets, etc., you will likely do that as desired on a post DEF unit as well. You will see a lot of DEF system problems on the internet, and they can be serious (engine quitting in the mountains, etc.), but no one blogs that they love their DEF system and that it has worked as advertised for 8-10 years. Like referees and umpires, they are supposed to work and be invisible.

[Shell Man]

I can tell you that I have a 2017 Newmar that we purchased new. 27,000 miles with no issues. I know many other owners who have DEF engines and have not heard of any problems. Good luck

[Poplar 111]

Hello,
Just want to pipe in with my opinion. We have owned a 2005 Travel Supreme 42' with tag axle for 8 years now and this met a few things that were mandatory on our wish list. A spartan chassis and a pre 2007 and coach. We have had no problems period! Put about 5000 miles a year on it down to Arizona and back. The odd maintenance item but probably less than most of the newer coaches I read about.
I was involved in road building for 40 years and never owned any diesel newer than 2007 other than our Chev 2012 diesel pick up and guess what I had to put a delete kit in it this year after fixing the DEF system 3 times in the previous 5000 miles at a cost of 3000.00 and the delete kit another 2000.00. DEF systems are prone to sensor failures and will not be trouble free etc etc.
We have some close friends that recently bought a 2009 Tiffin with the 450 cummins and got stranded up north for 10 days while their muffler system had to get rebaked which cost about 1500.00 or to replace would of cost 8000.00. So you can do a lot of repairs to an older coach for that kind of money.
Most of these older coaches have only 40-60,000 miles on them anyways and if you buy a good quality pre 2007 they should be more or less trouble free for many years to come. Regular maintenance with oil changes etc will go a long way to a trouble free owning experience and save you hundreds of thousands of dollars too.

[LargeMarge]

My answer:
"It depends."

According to your Requirements Statement you developed, your Preventative Maintenance includes a set-aside for repairs.
Your set-aside has a column for a) cash spent, b) time at the shop, c) waiting for parts.
[pre-2020, parts were generally available in a couple-three days.
2020 and beyond, parts may never be available...].

For an example of our 2003 Requirements Statement prior to building our ExpeditionVehicle on a 1997 commercial truck, we needed:
* a 'million-mile' commercial chassis with common off-the-shelf (COTS) components.
These include Cummins 8.3 mechanical (no computer) and Allison 3060.

We boondock exclusively, so we need ground clearance to trundle through boulders and stumps.
We need common heavy-truck tires -- 24.5, about a couple inches taller than 22.5.

I seem to recall hearing some American diesel engines used ExhaustFluid nonsense as early as 2007 or so.
The euros probably started with that ExhaustFluid nonsense before then.
Naturally, for our use on remote forest tracks and Baja beaches, simple ("no nonsense") is better.

I would like to read your Requirements Statement before we go further.

[Mudstream]

Pre-DEF coaches are getting a little long in the tooth. Properly maintained and cared for, they are still excellent vehicles. Just remember they could have other problems besides DEF issues because of their age.

My goal is to stay on the road when I want to and deal with the least amount of mechanical issues possible.

I've had two coaches that used DEF and never a DEF issue. Over 60,000 miles. Getting DEF is easier and cheaper now that many truck fuel islands have DEF pumps. To me, DEF is not a big deal.

Find what you like and can afford and buy it.

Mud

[mike5511]

Best of both worlds. Pre DEF, DPF and EGR truck. Has several hundred thousand miles left in her easy. Setting at 600,000 right now. High quality older trailer (Newmar). No, it doesn't have all the high tech of the newer ones (more stuff to go wrong, and it does. Who needs that?) And my wife says the decor is a little dated. That could be fixed if a person wanted to do it. I'm happy with the way it is. It's in very good condition for an 09 model......well it's an 09 model unless I'm going into a certain places, then it might be newer And at 38+ feet, very roomy. 5000+ miles in one big trip this year and only problem was a fuel filter stopped up. Easy fix. We're happy. FWIW

P.S. and I got less in all of that, including the Smart, than a new 5th wheel of that size would cost you by quite a bit.

[roblaura]

Not to be too PC, but perhaps you might consider that using DEF is kind to the environment. Just be sure the DEF tank is on the drive's side. Truck stops locate the DEF pump for access from that side. We had a 2012 Itasca that we loved, but the DEF tank was on the passenger side - go figure. The only way to fill it was to use the 2.5 gal. containers they sell inside. I had to rig a funnel and hose assembly to reach the tank for filling
without spilling.

[mike5511]

Originally Posted by roblaura

Not to be too PC, but perhaps you might consider that using DEF is kind to the environment. Just be sure the DEF tank is on the drive's side. Truck stops locate the DEF pump for access from that side. We had a 2012 Itasca that we loved, but the DEF tank was on the passenger side - go figure. The only way to fill it was to use the 2.5 gal. containers they sell inside. I had to rig a funnel and hose assembly to reach the tank for filling
without spilling.

So don't be.

[153stars]

No shortage of HP and torque right there . What trans.

Originally Posted by mike5511

Best of both worlds. Pre DEF, DPF and EGR truck. Has several hundred thousand miles left in her easy. Setting at 600,000 right now. High quality older trailer (Newmar). No, it doesn't have all the high tech of the newer ones (more stuff to go wrong, and it does. Who needs that?) And my wife says the decor is a little dated. That could be fixed if a person wanted to do it. I'm happy with the way it is. It's in very good condition for an 09 model......well it's an 09 model unless I'm going into a certain places, then it might be newer And at 38+ feet, very roomy. 5000+ miles in one big trip this year and only problem was a fuel filter stopped up. Easy fix. We're happy. FWIW

P.S. and I got less in all of that, including the Smart, than a new 5th wheel of that size would cost you by quite a bit.

[bobcor]

Originally Posted by Chief Deputy

My wife and I are now retired and ready to purchase our first diesel pusher. We are trying to decide between pre or post DEF. I read the forums here regularly and lately there seems to be several issues with emission control systems with DEF engines. From what I read it seems to suggest that every DEF model has or will have a very expensive emission failure. Is this overstated?

A little info might make it easier to answer. We like Newmar, Tiffin and Foretravel. We can spend up to 200k. If we by pre DEF we will have to put money into the unit to update interior and upgrade some equipment. If we buy newer (DEF engine), we would not have to put much more money in it for those reasons after purchase, however, it sounds like an expensive emission repair is almost guaranteed. We have a nice emergency fund set aside for emergency repairs and such but I have read people spending 10 to 15K for some emission control repairs. we could handle that if worst came to worst but I would rather not if I didn't have the same worry with a pre DEF DP.

For those of you with DEF engines, is EVERYONE having these problems? Or is this overstated by the few that have had these problems?

Thanks in advance for your response.

DEF ok with me. Never had a problem. Jan 2013 to Dec 26, 2020. Not expensive. SPARTAN CHASSIS (2013 Entegra Anthem). I think a good rule is to burn it down to almost empty around "2 gal"or less on 10 gal tank and only add half tank full. Keep it fresh. The MFG said shelf life 18mo. I think people let it set to long in the tank and in the can. Just an opinion. The cost of upgrades on an old coach I would think far out way DEF trouble shooting and repair. The DEF computer safety software is almost idiot proof.

Maybe great sales pitch for pre-DEF owners trying to sell their pre-DEF unit. Almost every tractor trailer u see on highway has DEF. Keep in mind SPARTAN CHASSIS is my experience. Its like I don't want Aqua Hot since I heard people have had trouble with them. Don't make it a big deal. PS. Go with Foretravel and side mounted radiator.

[mike5511]

Originally Posted by 153stars

No shortage of HP and torque right there . What trans.

Same motor and HP as yours with a 10 speed. Wish it had a 13 speed, but I don't really need one. 2:93 rearend according to the info on the door post. I can go down the road at about 65 mph, at about 1500 rpm. We averaged over 9.5 on the recent trip to the west coast, (5000 miles round trip) came back U.S. 50 and I 70.

[mike5511]

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