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06-29-2020, 04:29 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunson67
Is there a way to remove the entire window assembly and turn these into single pane windows and do away with the second insulating pane?
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Yes you can OR you can repair them yourself if you are handy at all. This place has the supplies to repair them https://www.dkhardware.com/insulatin...C4922M0P1.html or you can have them repaired relatively inexpensively. Like most repair shops you have repairmen and then you have salesmen pretending to be repairmen. It's just glass and RV glass does not have argon or any gas inside other than air.
I've had insulated glass and single pane, I hope to never have a camper or house with single pane again. If I was buying one and saw it had been converted to single pane I would run away.
__________________
2014 Newell 2020P 45'8" ISX 600 HP
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06-30-2020, 04:29 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1
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I did a YouTube video on the procedure. See "RV foggy window fix"
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06-30-2020, 06:11 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson612000
please do a search on double pane windows and you can get a lot good information I would NOT go to single pane
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I would.
I note with interest that the prevalent opinions here agree with you.
When we had this problem with the used 2012 Tiffin we bought in 2015, and went to the factory service center to address it, they made no apology in offering a replacement SINGLE PANE replacement, which has been giving us perfect service and operation ever since.
Given the opportunity, I'd do it again.
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07-07-2020, 03:44 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 98
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Just wanted to say thanks for all of the input regarding the double pane glass. I apologize I went dark for a while, been busy actually working on the RV doing upgrades. At this point I'm leaning towards either doing the repair my self, or, for $220.00 there s specialty shop in my town that does mobile RV double pain window repair. My only concern is the etching everyone talks about. We have a polishing department that does optical polishing, including glass, so I'm pretty sure we could polish out the etching if there is any, but, if the repair guy cant wait then I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll also be posting a few more questions as I begin doing more work. Thanks again!
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07-07-2020, 04:38 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest and Arizona
Posts: 2,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunson67
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the input regarding the double pane glass. I apologize I went dark for a while, been busy actually working on the RV doing upgrades. At this point I'm leaning towards either doing the repair my self, or, for $220.00 there s specialty shop in my town that does mobile RV double pain window repair. My only concern is the etching everyone talks about. We have a polishing department that does optical polishing, including glass, so I'm pretty sure we could polish out the etching if there is any, but, if the repair guy cant wait then I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll also be posting a few more questions as I begin doing more work. Thanks again!
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Since you mentioned optical polishing I thought I'd add some information not commonly known.
I've repaired about a dozen fogged windows including a couple that were "etched". Note I put the word etched in quotes. That because the glass isn't truly etched. What happens is, as the moisture trapped between the glass cycles in and out of the desiccant it takes a tiny amount of the desiccant with it and it slowly builds up a layer on he glass each time the moisture dries. The desiccant is silica based, and bonds fairly strongly with the glass surface. Etching is a process that removes the surface of the glass and this isn't what happens when these windows "fog."
I have experience with making optics and when I looked at the "etched" inner pane surface it just didn't look quite like what a unpolished glass surface looked like. It reminded me of mineral build up. I grabbed my 10x loupe and looked closely at the surface. Sure enough, the surface looked raised above the surrounding polished surface. I decided the glass was a loss as is, so I figured I'd experiment to see if I could remove the deposit. I used Lime Away and a non abrasive scrub pad with light pressure, rinsed and re-examined the surface. It appeared to be thinning and at one point I got the clue that told me I was on the right path. Where the "etching" seemed to be thinning, I noticed some rainbow reflections. Anyone familiar with optical coatings knows this is an interference pattern from light reflecting between a now extremely thin coating and the surface of the glass. As I continued the color of the reflection changed indicating it was thinning and the "edge" of the mineral film took on the appearance of a feathered surface just like when you wet sand paint.
To make a long story even longer, with continued work, eventually all the "etching" was gone, leaving the original polished surface intact. My first attempt and experimentations left some fine sleeks in the glass, but they were only visible when the sun his the glass at just the right angle. On the later window I used a Cerium Oxide slurry and less pressure. If I was going to do more etched windows, I'd consider using felt or even picking up a roll of optical polishing pads and use them with the Cerium Oxide.
Now, in the real world this doesn't make a whole lot of difference because my time was "free." No professional glass place is going to polish out the "etching" because the labor involved would quickly exceed the cost of a new glass pane, but since you mentioned having access to optical polishing, you could sure give it a try.
One thing to note is tempered glass is pretty soft but any place that has experience with optical polishing shouldn't have a problem with it.
If you do try, I'd love to hear about the results.
__________________
Tom and Pris M. along with Buddy the 18 year old Siamese cat
1998 Safari Serengeti 3706, 300HP Cat 3126 Allison 3060, 900 watts of Solar.
Dragging four telescopes around the US in search of dark skies.
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07-07-2020, 07:52 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,354
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I didn't have any issues with mineral depositing on my glass, but I suspect that CLR would also remove the material fairly readily without damaging the glass. Another option (which probably wouldn't survive the chemical assault) is a Magic Eraser - as these are designed to lift away staining from a surface without damaging the surface itself.
__________________
02 40' Monaco Diplomat: 1020 watts solar, Victron inverter. FASS, TRW steering, 23 cuft Frigidaire, D/W, W/D, Magneshade, Wood Floor, New cabinets, diesel heater
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07-08-2020, 08:24 AM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 98
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Hey Tom, yes, you nailed it, makes perfect sense, and we do in fact have felt polishing materials and optical polishing pads and cerium oxide. When I'm ready to tear into this I'll definitely remove the window myself, clean/polish the glass, and at that point maybe have the local shop put it all back together so I can re-install. Thanks for the most excellent tip and advice!
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07-08-2020, 09:04 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Arisona
Posts: 700
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Double pane is a double pain lol...been there $$$. Love my single pane now and glad I passed on the double pane option.
__________________
2023 GD Imagine XLS 23LDE 2022 Ford F-150
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07-09-2020, 05:25 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,345
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There may well be valid reasons for double pane glass for some owners. We have double pane glass in our home. The main reason why is because of the cold winter weather in New England. We do camp for a few weekends in the fall where temps may drop to 45. Other than that, no. No we have no technological need for double pane glass. It is more than obvious with the amount of issues they have that double pane windows do not do well traveling down the highways. My view is that some marketing person saw a method to extract more money for an already poor quality product, that being the entire RV industry, and suggested adding the double pane window and increase profit at the point of sale and then a few years later when they go bad. We are suckers for any new and innovative idea that makes our lives “better”. I’m still waiting for the indoor pool.
__________________
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
2009 Fleetwood Bounder 35H
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07-09-2020, 08:27 AM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 98
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Kind of liking the indoor pool idea! LOL
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07-09-2020, 09:17 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunson67
Kind of liking the indoor pool idea! LOL
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Just give it some time !!
__________________
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
2009 Fleetwood Bounder 35H
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07-09-2020, 09:51 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 446
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Double pane windows are much better for insulating the coach. I have double pane windows and I have never had a fogging problem since 2003. But I have read of some people having issues with the fogging. I guess it all depends on the manufacturer of the windows. But I would never go to single pane. Fact I did not even think that they installed single pane anymore.
__________________
2002 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser 38'
Neway Freightliner chassis, 2018 Buick Envision Ess.
3126-E Caterpillar 330 hp
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07-09-2020, 10:34 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Tiffin Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Byhalia, MS
Posts: 3,367
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In addition to better insulation double pane windows won’t sweat in cooler weather. I’ve read numerous posts here complaining about windows sweating. No, I can’t furnish the postings or the dates.
jt
__________________
2019 Tiffin Phaeton 40IH
2005 Newmar Kountry Star Gas (Sold)
2022 JL Wrangler 4xe or 2017 Harley Ultra in tow
JT, Em & the boys, Kong & Baxter (rescued grey tabbies)
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07-10-2020, 10:35 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyjt
In addition to better insulation double pane windows won’t sweat in cooler weather. I’ve read numerous posts here complaining about windows sweating. No, I can’t furnish the postings or the dates.
jt
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We were in Florida for the winter parked next to a fifth wheel buddy-style and one day the wife mentioned how she disliked having to wipe the water off the windows in the morning. They have single pane and we have dual pane so we didn’t know what she was talking about. I guess it was the reverse of winter, the cold was on the inside from the air conditioning or something.
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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