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Old 06-26-2020, 10:53 AM   #1
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Double Pane Glass

Hello, and yes, double PAIN glass! LOL

Question, I have a 2008 Fleetwood Fiesta I bought used, it was ordered with double pane glass throughout the coach. All of the windows are foggy to some degree, but the worst are the front Drivers and Passengers. Is there a way to remove the entire window assembly and turn these into single pane windows and do away with the second insulating pane?

Thanks,

Rob
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Old 06-26-2020, 10:59 AM   #2
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please do a search on double pane windows and you can get a
lot good information

I would NOT go to single pane

so start reading
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:00 AM   #3
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If your planning on using it in hot or cold environments then you need to find one of the folks/shops that replace double pane
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:21 AM   #4
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Hi all, thanks for the replies! I did locate a mobile guy who does double pane repair, he charges $220.00 for each window, which I thought was pretty good. SO maybe I'll have him do it. I originally posted the question because it seems like a lot of people do not like the double pane glass because of it having issues with seals. But I will definitely do a search and read up on it some more. Thanks again!
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:25 AM   #5
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Over the last couple of years of reading the forums on iRV2 I've seen a large number of comment threads on this topic.

The double pane units do have a higher thermal resistance (translation: the "R" value of insulation... the higher, the better). Triple panes units have an even higher rating than double pane. The higher the R-value the less your air conditioner and furnace needs to run.

I'd avoid swapping them with single pane units in any area where you need the increased insulation.

I've seen companies that rebuild the double pane units mentioned in the threads.

So use the search function and try "double pane fix", "double pane fog", "window fog", "fogged window repair", or any other phrase that you can come up with that might trigger the search.

The info is out there. The fogged windows can be removed, and if necessary replaced temporarily with a properly shaped piece of wood or masonite. I remember reading a thread where one owner removed the window assembly from the drivers door and disassembled it down to the glass (and the metal frame glued to the bottom of it) and shipped that one piece cross-country. They repaired the fogged glass and shipped it back. He reassembled the mechanism, reinstalled it in the door and was very happy.

Mike
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Old 06-26-2020, 04:05 PM   #6
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Thanks Mike!
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Old 06-26-2020, 05:16 PM   #7
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Mike gave you good advice! I would definitely NOT convert to single-pane windows! Aside from the condensation problem your RV will be much harder to heat and cool.
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Old 06-26-2020, 08:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers View Post
Mike gave you good advice! I would definitely NOT convert to single-pane windows! Aside from the condensation problem your RV will be much harder to heat and cool.
And maybe a lot noisier up front when driving.

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Old 06-26-2020, 11:46 PM   #9
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I found my notes. Two of the recommended repair companies are:

RV Fog Doctor located in Searcy Arkansas. 501-278-3015

Suncoast Designers in Hudson, Florida
727-868-2773

Mike
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Old 06-27-2020, 12:21 AM   #10
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If you are even moderately handy, you can rebuild the unit yourself. They are called "IGU" or "Insulated Glass Units" and they aren't that complicated.

Getting the glass out of the frame is probably the hardest part, and that just requires figuring out where the screws are in the frame - they may be hidden by goo.

Once you have the frame separated, a razor knife around the outside of the glass to cut the sealant and the spacer, and you have the glass separated. Use a razor to scrape off all the old crap - sealer, goo, separator... All of it. Now - clean, clean, clean some more... And then clean it again! There is a light blue spray can of cleaner in Home Depot called "Clear Glass" (or similar) that is designed for windshields and the like, but you can also go to any Safelite Auto Glass installer and buy the cleaner cans that they use - I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff. What you want MUST be streak-free and not leave any kind of residue on the glass.

Now that the window is clear.... How to build the IGU? The separator / desiccant strip is available from Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0149J3L6C...v_ov_lig_dp_it

The stuff is self adhesive, and you want to use it with the foil side to the edge of the glass. Peel one side, place it about 1/2" inside the edge of the glass, and install all the way around the window and leave a small gap at the top. Then just peel the other side and CAREFULLY line up the glass and stick them together.

Now the sealant. The original sealer is a butyl product that "never dries" yet manages to break it's own seal over time and let the humidity in. Boo on that. I used 100% GE Silicone 2, which I have NEVER had a problem of it losing adhesion! The idea of the small gap in the separator at the top of the glass is to allow you to fill the IGU with gas - more on that in a minute. Squirt the silicone into the gap between the two panes and fill that space from the separator to the edge of the glass. All the way around - BUT LEAVE THAT GAP AT THE TOP. You'll get to that later. You can see with the silicone if there are any gaps against the glass, so it will be easy to get it full and solid. Set it aside and let it cure for at least a day.

Now about the gap at the top and the gas. At original manufacture, an IGU will have a gas filling that is designed to keep it dry and assist in the insulating value. You don't specifically HAVE to do this, but if you have the ability and the materials, it will help. I already own a MIG welder and that has a gas regulator with it. The end of the gas line perfectly fit onto a coffee straw. I had purchased a welding bottle of 100% argon, and as argon is heavier than air - if you stand the glass up and have the gap at the top, the argon won't run out. Using a straw puts the "insertion point" deeper into the window and allows the heavy argon to push out the lighter nitrogen/oxygen air from the glass. Bottled welding gasses are also ZERO percent humidity, so even if you got a bottle of CO2/Argon mix, that would be fine. I let the regulator run the gas into the window for around 3 minutes, probably WAY longer than needed but it's hard to tell since you can't see it. Once I was satisfied, simply pull the straw out of the gap and squirt in a small amount of silicone to close the gap, and leave it to cure again.

Congratulations, your window is now ready to rebuild, and should never fog again. I've had mine in place now for over 2 years and it is still crystal clear.
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:48 PM   #11
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So just what are the good reasons for not going single pane ? When it gets cold for me, we are generally done camping. If it gets so hot then the AC is gonna work hard anyway. I live in Northern New England and for the most part we do not have the extremes during our camping season. My windows, like many others are fogged and for the most part I really don't care. However i wouldn't mind getting the driver and passenger window done but since the doubles would likely lose their seal again ..... what's the point ?
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:53 PM   #12
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I used RV Fog Doctor In Searcy. They did a great job and highly recommend. I have 11 windows, not including the drivers side and the passenger side front. Cost me $2400.00 plus tax and was done in 2 days. I didn't think it was that big of a deal until I saw the difference. It was amazing and well worth the money. There is no way I would do the work required to save $200.00 per window unit. I didn't even have to remove any valences or shades. I think the front drivers side is $300.00 because there are 3 panes.
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracr39 View Post
I used RV Fog Doctor In Searcy. They did a great job and highly recommend. I have 11 windows, not including the drivers side and the passenger side front. Cost me $2400.00 plus tax and was done in 2 days. I didn't think it was that big of a deal until I saw the difference. It was amazing and well worth the money. There is no way I would do the work required to save $200.00 per window unit. I didn't even have to remove any valences or shades. I think the front drivers side is $300.00 because there are 3 panes.


In many cases the foggy glass is etched and canít be properly cleaned. Delaminated glass is also common. Both issues require new individual panes of glass for the affected window. We went to Sun Coast in Florida last December expecting to pay around $1600 to fix our windows. Once the windows were removed and taken apart it was determined most of the glass panes needed to be replaced due etching and de lamination. Our bill more than doubled and you donít have any viable options at that point.

Sun Coast is very upfront about the various costs per window to clean and reseal, replace panes, etc. Unfortunately what will actually be required canít be determined prior to removal and disassembly of the affected windows.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:53 PM   #14
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For similar pricing to having them fixed you can go to laminated glass. On the drivers and passenger front area we did tempered glass. We use ours in the cold and the heat with zero issues. And they will never refog. Double pane will eventually do it again once the seals dry up. Regards
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