Community Forums

Bigd9 · 09-18-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyMac

Nobody said it yet, but is your dolly and toad braking for themselves? If not, you have 4000 pound pushing instead of pulling, and that's a big problem. I rigged a simple test of my exhaust brake. I could not convince my wife to go back in the bedroom as we are going downhill, crawl over the bed and open the engine cover to look at the exhaust brake valve to see is it had closed upon activation. "Oh, it's too hot and messy?" (whatever) So, with a piece of fence wire and a piece of thread, I rigged a telltale. The fence wire is attached to the exbrake valve and is about 12" long to dissipate heat, with a loop in its free end. I tied the thread to that loop and secured the other end of the thread to the bulkhead. The I went for a drive without the grumpy wife, and used the exbrake. Sure enough, it pulled on the thread and broke it, proving the valve is moving. I feel a lot of braking from my exbrake, but I could not tell how much came from the exbrake and how much came from the automatic downshift that occurs at the same time, therefore, could not tell if the exbrake valve was moving. This telltale proved the valve is moving.

And yes, it's spelled brake, not break.

Oh that is so funny. It mirrors what I went through trying to figure out is the exhaust brake was working or not. Only my copilot also added "Too Noisy" and "I'm afraid I'm going to fall through". So I something very similar to what you did to check mine. Instead of string, I used survey flagging ribbon.

As far as brake vs break, every time when driving and I need to take a potty break, I hit the brakes to stop!

Damion · 09-18-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigd9

Oh that is so funny. It mirrors what I went through trying to figure out is the exhaust brake was working or not. Only my copilot also added "Too Noisy" and "I'm afraid I'm going to fall through". So I something very similar to what you did to check mine. Instead of string, I used survey flagging ribbon.

As far as brake vs break, every time when driving and I need to take a potty break, I hit the brakes to stop!

Went through the same problems with copilot! Learned that on my 2001 8.3 that if you put Tran in 2nd gear and speedup and down you can play with EB switch and feel if it is working. Mine was rusted solid when I bought it also. Not sure if this will work on your engine.

Bigd9 · 09-18-2018, 07:23 PM

Just to mention, since we are talking about exhaust brakes, the PAC Brake brand of the exhaust brake does need lubrication every 3 to 6 months to keep it working as designed.

Skip Y · 09-19-2018, 01:26 PM

An easier way to test the engine brake is to see how long it takes to come to a stop (or nearly a stop) with and without the brake in service. Doesn't have to be on a downslope. I keep mine on most of time and use it to ease burden on service brakes,

Skip Y
2010 Journey 40TD, 2015 Equinox
Loc: Mich

Dutch Star Don · 09-19-2018, 05:37 PM

You need to try different things to see what works. First, the adage up and down in the same gear is a huge wives tale and is constantly regurgitated. First off, every hill would have to be identical on both sides and you would need to have the same braking power as horsepower.

At some point, when descending a grade, your coach will provide enough exhaust braking and transmission downshift to hold your coach with little or no stabbing of the brakes. The problem is.....on a coach like yours, that speed may be 25mph - 30mph. A speed that will have semi's running over you.

I had a 2005 36' Monaco Diplomat with a 400ISL . It was a rocket, I could climb any grade out west at 55+mph, while towing. The problem.....it had an exhaust brake and was difficult to descend grades at a reasonable speed. Anything above 3rd gear and 44mph, I would have to repeatedly apply the foot brakes to keep my speed under 50mph - 55mph. On a long grade, that was a lot of brake use.

I mention the 3rd gear and 44mph because that's where my coach would hold 5%, 6% and some 7% grades without touching the foot brakes. My coach would downshift into third at 44mph and crawl along with little to no foot brakes. The problem.....I was getting run over by semi's. I know a lot of people will say, don't worry about the semi's, but that can be dangerous.

So, try some different gears and see what speed your coach will actually hold on a grade. It may be 2nd or 3rd and will definitely be slow. You have to decide if you want to go that slow or stab the brakes a lot at a faster speed.

10EC · 09-19-2018, 06:19 PM

Sounds like the jake aint jaking

Damion · 09-19-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Y

An easier way to test the engine brake is to see how long it takes to come to a stop (or nearly a stop) with and without the brake in service. Doesn't have to be on a downslope. I keep mine on most of time and use it to ease burden on service brakes,

Skip Y
2010 Journey 40TD, 2015 Equinox
Loc: Mich

With this method how can he tell if it just the transmission down shifting or the EB is actually working also?

10EC · 09-20-2018, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd9

just to mention, since we are talking about exhaust brakes, the pac brake brand of the exhaust brake does need lubrication every 3 to 6 months to keep it working as designed.

also my 3126b has a jacobs exaust brake. Was working good then it stuck /froze in the open/drive postion. I took it complety apart. By the book, it is also supposted to be lubricated top and bottom. Bottom side lubercation is impossible. It can not be done. The air cyl (top) side the shaft goes thru the brake housing to the butterfly and the bottom of the butterfly pivots on a stud. The stud is visable from the bottom outside. It is held in the brake housing with a roll pin. The bottom of my butter fly froze to the top half of the stud.
--good luck--

Dav L · 09-20-2018, 08:41 AM

"First, the adage up and down in the same gear is a huge wives tale and is constantly regurgitated. First off, every hill would have to be identical on both sides and you would need to have the same braking power as horsepower."

Agreed. How do these stories keep coming up. Certainly it is "never" done because no two hills are identical up / down. So why do the stories continue?

Keeping open minded, for those that have posted that...do you follow that recommendation / technique yourself?

ScoobyDoo · 09-20-2018, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dav L

"First, the adage up and down in the same gear is a huge wives tale and is constantly regurgitated. First off, every hill would have to be identical on both sides and you would need to have the same braking power as horsepower."

Agreed. How do these stories keep coming up. Certainly it is "never" done because no two hills are identical up / down. So why do the stories continue?

Keeping open minded, for those that have posted that...do you follow that recommendation / technique yourself?

That recommendation dates back to the days when most trucking was done over short distances. A driver would go up the hill today, and run a backhaul tomorrow. And I don't know as it was ever expected to be a literal "rule". More of a "if I had to drop to 3 and 2 to pull this hill with this load, I need to be in 3 and 2 to control going down."

TonyMac · 09-21-2018, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10EC

Sounds like the jake aint jaking

I never knew Jake was a verb, as in "So, I'm coming down the hill, Jaking like a big dog." I thought it was just a noun "Turn on your Jake." or an adjective "Turn on your Jake Brake." But, then again, I went to a State University, so....

If you pay attention, you'll learn something new every day.

hrw · 09-21-2018, 03:53 PM

I don’t understand that you can’t tell if the Jake is working? When I’m going downhill, I can feel it and hear it. I constantly shift from 1st to 2nd stage, once in a while on steep grades up to 3rd but only for a little while as 3rd range slows the Coach considerably.

TonyMac · 09-22-2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrw

I don’t understand that you can’t tell if the Jake is working? When I’m going downhill, I can feel it and hear it. I constantly shift from 1st to 2nd stage, once in a while on steep grades up to 3rd but only for a little while as 3rd range slows the Coach considerably.

We're talking about a single-stage exhaust brake. I hear something too, but most of the noise is the engine revving up as the tranny shift down. The EB itself makes little to no noise, unlike a compression release brake. So the question is how much of this braking action is from the EB, and how much is from the downshift? I reallyreally wish I had your brake, but mine works well enough and so it's not worth the upgrade.

bucks2 · 09-22-2018, 05:45 PM

Hmmmm...... if you're not sure the jake or the exhaust brake (different items, but they help solve the same problem) is working, why wouldn't you just go down a hill at a safe speed, where the engine is slowing the coach appropriately and the just turn off the switch to the brake? You will instantly know if it was working or not and you can turn it back on in a heartbeat to continue safely on. Too simple?