Driver Assistance Technologies

[Zero AGL]

This is a new thread to discuss the development path of Driver Assistance Technologies for RVs. Your National Highway Traffic Safety Administration defines the different levels of these technologies really well, here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/driv...-warning-30631

Collision Warning systems for Class A RVs have been available for several years as aftermarket and original equipment (Mobileye, Spartan Advanced Protection System, Freightliner RoadWatch).

Another class of technology is Driving Control Assistance which includes Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Centering Assistance and Lane Keeping Assistance. Adaptive Cruise Control - adjusts the vehicle’s speed to keep a pre-set distance from the vehicle in front of it - has been recently introduced by Freightliner and Spartan, but I believe neither offers Lane Centering Assistance or Lane Keeping Assistance, though these are common on Class B and some Class C rigs.

An internet search in Sep21 found no articulation of manufacturers’ plans to add new Driver Assistance Technologies to RVs in general, or Class A’s in particular. I plan to buy a new Class A in the next year or two. I have used Lane Centering Assistance and Lane Keeping Assistance in autos for highway driving and find it to be a safety enhancement for me. This technology is on my RV shopping list.

Have you heard of any Class A manufacturers offering or talking about Lane Centering Assistance or Lane Keeping Assistance?

The intent of this thread to facilitate discussion of Driver Assistance Technologies. Properly utilized, these technologies aim to improve safety. Not everyone finds new technology useful. That’s ok. Someday there will be autonomous RVs cruising our interstates; maybe in my lifetime!

[Ray,IN]

Given the problems associated with the SMART wheels, I hope MH mfgrs. don't try to add even more electronics. There is a very pertinent thread on the FMCA discussion forums about problems with modern electronics in MH's.

[Zero AGL]

Ray - thanks for the tip on FMCA. As a newbie, I had not found that organization previously. Can you suggest a search term to find the info you mentioned? I tried many and struck out.

Looks like Freightliner is moving forward on the semi side:
"Freightliner New Cascadia, the first truck to meet SAE Level 2 standards. This means that the truck is able to offer driver assistance features (to a fully engaged operator) that support both forward and lateral control using adaptive cruise control, automated lane-keeping assist, and lane-centering. It also has automated braking in the event of detecting a moving pedestrian."

[Ray,IN]

zeroagl, I sent you the link by PM with explanation.

[Ray,IN]

re: what you initially described is designed and made by WABCO.

[Ray,IN]

Yes I would like to see all that implemented in MH's if it can be proven as reliable as today's automobiles.
The elephant in the room is added build costs; MH's are already more than some houses, adding another $15K will hurt sales IMO.

[RV Driver]

I see all these adaptive technologies as furthering the “dumbing down” of the driver. You don’t have to worry about staying in your lane…let the “Lane Centering Assistance” take care of it. Don’t need to pay attention to the right following distance any more…let the adaptive cruise control handle it.

A driver with all of this “helpful” technology available can easily get lulled into a false sense of security and not pay attention to the driving. It’s too easy to just “zone out” and roll. No thanks.

The best “adaptive technology” on the road is a driver who is sitting up straight and paying attention.

[Zero AGL]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Does cruise control make you "zone out"?
Do more comfortable seats make you fall asleep?
Autopilots on commercial aircraft are required for safety, reduce pilot fatigue and there are two pilots sitting there.

I think another way to look Driving Control Assistance is to help reduce fatigue and provide backup for foreseeable failures. Lane drift and following too closely are regularly occurring deviations from best practice. I am imperfect; I make these errors. Not often and I try not to, but having an automated coach alerting me of an error before it progresses too far sounds like a good safety feature to me.

There are a lot of bad drivers on the road. I'd like them to have these systems. At some point, the Driving Control Assistance technology will perform better than bad drivers. That might deliver fewer accidents.

[Dav L]

an RV is a perfect use for autonomous driving technology.
What is holding up implementation is that it's still immature technology that the auto companies are footing the huge bill to develop the software algorithms.
Once that is done, the auto suppliers will sell derivatives to the RV chassis builders and we'll all get to take a break from the driving when cruising down I-75.
Yes, it will be more money and launch on higher end rigs first. Then years later it will trickle down to the lower priced models as options.

If the data truly shows it's safer (it will at some point), then it will become like seat belts.

[whalepirot]

Originally Posted by RV Driver

I see all these adaptive technologies as furthering the “dumbing down” of the driver. You don’t have to worry about staying in your lane…let the “Lane Centering Assistance” take care of it. Don’t need to pay attention to the right following distance any more…let the adaptive cruise control handle it.

A driver with all of this “helpful” technology available can easily get lulled into a false sense of security and not pay attention to the driving. It’s too easy to just “zone out” and roll. No thanks.

The best “adaptive technology” on the road is a driver who is sitting up straight and paying attention.

This is not speculation like many opinions extolling the promise of this tech.

Having decades of experience in long haul flying, a primary safety priority with auto-flight was to keep humans active and involved. Why we need to relearn that humans are crappy monitors, escapes any logic, as this has been studied to death in a much simpler environment: airways versus roadways. There were multiple situations where I had to shut down the auto-flight of highly automated new aircraft or 'lie' to it, to be safe and comply with the real world.

Additionally, I dumped a new Subaru that had the distracting slew of warnings, 99+% false or late. Installing sensors that turned room lights on/off taught my family to never turn off a light. My self aware wife remarked that she felt disconnected from the 745Li (27 computers) versus driving her '55 Nash.

The concept is proven and established. The 'promise' is fiction and ignores experience, science and decades of human engineering design for safe practice. I stay well clear of Teslas, fearing they're on auto-drive.

If you cannot pay attention and drive safely, take the bus.

[Dav L]

It's just a matter of time that fully autonomous driving will be far safer than human. It's almost available now. That's not to say that there will still be accidents. And each of those will be in the news because it's news. When it becomes proven that it is more helpful than hurtful, it will become every day. And then the safety will go way up as the autonomous vehicles will not need to react to human inconsistencies as much. And then you will not read too much about it (like you don't read about most accidents with human drivers today of the total that occur).

Again, it will (is) happen first in Cars, then over the road trucks and then RVs because that's the economics.

The technology being developed is FAR more advanced than any in flight system today. It's much easier to do air (and marine) auto pilot than the craziness of city driving. Same technology will then be adapted to marine and air. Air is a much slower pace due to the certifications involved. Autopilot in planes is more similar to today's "smart cruise control" in a car. It's NOT autonomous and never was intended to be as the technology didn't exist when you were flying.

You are speculating that tech will not work. If you look back to any history, that has always not proven out. Eventually it gets figured out and if it was a good idea to have, it gets done.

Amazon just started shipment of a robot that runs around your house and avoids your dog on the floor. And Roomba just added artificial intelligence into their robotic vacuum to identify and avoid dog poop on the floor to avoid smearing it all over the carpet. I wouldn't be surprised if it sends you a text message that Fido messed on the floor again. The technology is way on it's way.

[RV Driver]

Originally Posted by whalepirot

...There were multiple situations where I had to shut down the auto-flight of highly automated new aircraft or 'lie' to it, to be safe and comply with the real world...The 'promise' is fiction and ignores experience, science and decades of human engineering design for safe practice...If you cannot pay attention and drive safely, take the bus.

As a recently retired pilot, I have to fully agree with what whalepirot said here. There were many times in my flying career when I had to say to myself, "What's it doing now?" in reference to the automated Flight Management System. I would then have to do the same thing that whalepirot did - take action myself and hand fly the aircraft, or "lie" to the Flight Management System to get it to do what I wanted it to do.

I stand by my statement that all this automation is just furthering the dumbing down of the average driver. Just look at what is already happening. Approaching an interstate exit now is like taking your life in your hands. I see distracted drivers making wildly aggressive moves from the left or middle lane for the exit lane, cutting off traffic and in some cases, causing accidents. All because they are too busy texting while they drive and are not paying attention.

Autonomous automobiles are not going to solve this, at least not in our lifetimes. The technology available to us right now is far too crude and unintelligent to automate the driving of a car. The tech is not "...far more advanced..." than a Flight Management System in an aircraft. The FMS has to think and work in three dimensions.

[Zero AGL]

"...not in our lifetimes.."
Hmmm, I'm 61 and hope to have 25+ years left. I think I will be able to take a fully autonomous car from the assisted living center to my kid's home for dinner 20 years from now. Probably get invited over more often that way, if they don't have to worry about my driving.

Autonomous Uber (with a safety driver) is already in pilot trials in CA and TX. I expect that we will see a fully autonomous option in many USA places in <5 years. Yes, there will be problems. But also new solutions. There is no shortage of bad drivers that need help: drunk drivers, elderly drivers, student drivers, my ex-wife...

As a pilot and mariner, I agree with Dav L, airplane and boat autopilots are designed to solve much simpler automation problems. They have fewer sensors, simpler logic and network requirements, and more benign operating environments. Also, we have learned a lot from their use.

For RVs, I look more toward the over-the-road truck manufacturers for the automation most appropriate for RVs. Last Mile and city driving of trucks may be late in the automation cycle. Maintaining highway driving [As RV Driver said, different than entering and exiting the interstate] is a lot simpler. Volvo and others are looking at networked interstate convoys of ~10 trucks with one driver in the lead truck. Simple marshalling yards at the start and end support the more difficult on/off parts.

What if, from your dash, you could join an overnight convoy of 10 trucks and RVs on I-80 from Des Moines to Salt Lake, with two specially licensed professional drivers in the lead truck managing the networked convoy? It would probably go the speed limit in the right lane. After a few million miles of experience, there would be some robust statistics on automated convoy safety vs manual driving. Your insurance company would also weigh in on the safety level. This might be 2030?

I suspect that concept will make some people's head explode. I think it's pretty cool.

[hypoxia]

I have VORAD adaptive cruise control on my 2007 coach and have used it for more than 50,000 miles. I like it a lot. It will slow to follow traffic and apply the Jake Brake if needed. It will speed up when there are no obstacles. It is very smooth, probably due to the 53,000 pounds it is controlling. It also has ATC and ABS

My 2021 Ram has all of that control stuff. Being a light vehicle it is a lot more aggressive with the slowing down and speeding up, lane change, etc. It takes some getting used to but works very well once I took time to learn what it does and how it works.

Not much comparison between an RV and a flying machine, IMHO. Going from no automation and steam gauges to the video, GPS, guidance and automation was wonderful. In an RV I never have a 4 day trip crossing many time zones and changing from dayshift to night shift back & forth with crew scheduling and dispatch changing my schedule. In the RV when I experience fatigue I can just pull over and take a nap.

Learning the automation may be difficult for an RV operator since many of them put so few miles on the RV per year. As others have mentioned, RV reliability and expense for repairs could make automation more trouble than it is worth since there are so few manufactured. Automotive manufacturers make millions of vehicles and are able to perfect the systems along with a much better warranty than RVs have.