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Old 11-05-2024, 06:36 AM   #15
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I also vote for AGS, set to start while still honoring "quiet" hours.

... and, of course, adding a couple of more coach (house) batteries would be a very logical move since your MH is currently "off-the-shelf" and set for travel from one pedestal to another, not for real boondocking.
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Old 11-05-2024, 08:18 AM   #16
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Here is a basic answer: dry camping, expect to run the generator 2X a day, morning and evening, to maintain battery charge to keep frig going. Just the nature of the beast. “Low battery” warning when first starting is normal as there is a pretty good draw to heat grids for starting engine. What you are experiencing is normal.
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Old 11-07-2024, 10:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by followingsea;6895415[B
]My cheap replacement residential fridge ran fine on the MSW inverter.[/B] My measured dry camping experience indicated that the fridge did not require a significant longer charging time.

When dry camping I turn the residential fridge off at night and it stays cold.

I plug at my son's house on a 20 amp kitchen circuit. No the A/C and waffle iron cannot be used at the same time.

I have a cheap battery load tester because I have a sailboat and knowing that either of my batteries will start the engine is important. It is equally useful for a MH.
Well Sir,
First, maybe you did your research BEFORE purchasing your little fridge and found a model that CAN run on MSW. I however, just wasn't smart enough to check on an important detail like that before we bought ours. It wasn't until several days after the install and, on our first trip with it, that I finally got around to reading owners manual on that Magic Chef 10.1 that I found in TWO SPOTS on the same page in that manual.

1. "Do not use this refrigerator in an RV"!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. "Do not use this refrigerator on an INVERTER"!!!!!!!!

Well, needless to say, kind-of a screwup on my part. I ought to know better in situations like this. But, live and learn, even at my ancient age. Soooo, after some experimentation and re-wiring of some stuff in our main breaker panel and the inverter breaker panel, I thought I'd cured my problem. NOPE! That's when I found it wouldn't run on a MSW inverter.

Sooooo, we survived that trip as 99.999% of it involved full hookups. When we returned home, that's when I dove into searching for a stand-alone PSW inverter. I found a KISAE 1000 watt PSW inverter with a built-in transfer switch that fit the bill just right. I also wired in (with 1 gauge cables) a 100A continuous duty solenoid to handle the power from the house batteries to the inverter.

Yes, there are SOME smaller fridges that will operate fine on MSW. Ours however, wasn't/isn't one of them.
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Old 11-10-2024, 04:03 PM   #18
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Considering that a residential fridge is the #1 consumer of electricity in the average home, I have to wonder about RVs with residential fridges trying to dry camp without major and expensive support systems such as lots of solar panels and large Lithium ion battery banks.

Our Cameo has an Onan 3600 LP generator, while quite capable of supporting a refer's electrical needs, it's a terribly inefficient way to do that, a pain to refuel and noisy to boot. It this was a regular occurrence, i'd suggest something like a small Honda 1000 Inverter generator that's quiet, easy to refuel and provides adequate power for the job.

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Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP View Post
You've got two separate issues, starting battery merit (how old are they) and draw vs capacity for your house batteries. Do you have a battery monitor? That would tell you at a glance how your house power is being utilized. A residential fridge can draw a remarkable amount of power especially if it has a defrost cycle. For a couple more days, run the genset a lot. Then get a battery monitor.

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Old 11-10-2024, 05:33 PM   #19
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We have an all-electric coach with 8 6V deep cycle house batteries and a 3 door Whirlpool residential fridge with the batteries fully charged we can run for about 35 hours before we hit the 50% charge mark.
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Old 11-10-2024, 07:11 PM   #20
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The inverter runs on the house batteries - the engine batteries are single purpose. A residential refrigerator draws a LOT of energy - most are surprised at how much. The inverters are about 90% efficient, so you lose 10% right there. I converted my Norcold to 12v compressor refrigeration so I can run it on batteries (660 amp hours in two 8D batteries), the alternator when the engine is running, or the 850 watts of solar panels on the roof. If I'm off grid and it's sunny, I'm running the generator an hour in the morning and the last hour before quiet hours start. You can run basic stuff like the refrigeration on a 110 volt line plugged right to the refrigerator if you are having breaker issues.
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Old 11-10-2024, 07:35 PM   #21
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Your inverter is hooked to your house batteries . Your inverter charger control panel should allow you to change the rate of amps for 120 volts incoming to limit the charger from utilizing all 15 amps from your 15 amp outlet allowing the fridge to have the 5 or 6 amps needed to run. Residential refrigerators run off an inverter require at minimum 6 6volt golf cart batteries or 400 amp hours of Lithium batteries and 400 watts of solar to minimize generator usage to an hour in the morning and an hour before quiet time if boondocking. It's a power balancing act on a 15 amp circuit. Cant really run anything else while on a 15 amp breaker and the inverter charger is on a low charge rate.... good luck
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Old 11-10-2024, 09:05 PM   #22
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I don't know what kind of fridges you all are using. A basic fridge uses a KWH per day of power, that's hardly the biggest energy use in an average house these days. It won't run off a couple batteries long, or off a couple small solar panels. But 1,000w of solar panels are so cheap these days, that going days without running a generator is not that hard, IF you're willing to work on it.



A propane generator to charge batteries, to run an inverter, to run a residential fridge is not the best plan, but not a bad backup.
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Old 11-11-2024, 12:06 PM   #23
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Have you tried just plugging the fridge in directly from her house using a regular extension cord?
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Old 11-11-2024, 07:39 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
Well Sir,
First, maybe you did your research BEFORE purchasing your little fridge and found a model that CAN run on MSW. ......
Scott
I did a lot of research but not with respect to MSW. I am old and my MH is old so I took a risk that a cheap frig would last and it has.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hotpoint-9-...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

It is also not an energy hog. It does not have an ice maker or a water dispenser.
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Old 11-12-2024, 09:46 AM   #25
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No advice — this is my setup and experience. We full-time with a bit of boondocking and moochdocking.

I have a 2017 Tiffin Allegro RED with 4 golf cart batteries, residential fridge, and no solar.

If I turn off/unplug everything and only use a few lights here and there, my batteries support the fridge for days without charging — not sure exactly how many, 5 was the longest I went without driving (charge) or plugging in.

If I leave everything on and plugged in, I get about a day and a half — electric hot water and WiFi router seem to be the biggest draw. I haven’t done formal testing, this is anecdotal.

Camping without power but with generator use allowed I went a week running the generator for high draw (making coffee, microwave) and then only needed to run 1-1.5 hours a day to charge. — summer in western NY

I’ve had mixed experience plugging into regular household outlet, even with my charger off and everything except the fridge off. It’s okay if I’m around to check the circuit every day, but not something I’d trust to leave for longer than the batteries themselves would last.

“Your mileage may vary” and I am hardly an expert, but hopefully a helpful reference.

Good luck.
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Old 11-12-2024, 01:02 PM   #26
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Good morning,

I went from a 2006 Discovery with a regular RV fridge to a 2017 Pace Arrow with a residential fridge. I am unfamiliar with how long I should be able to go without running the generator and am wondering if it is normal to have to turn on the generator every few hours, just from using the fridge and a couple of lights. I stay in front of my daughter's house without any shore power (her house is older, and the breakers trip if I plug in) and this is really getting old.

I replaced my house batteries when I bought this RV in April, so they should be good. I asked Velocity (Freightliner) to check the engine batteries a couple months ago, and they said they're fine. But every time I start the engine, it says low battery.

Which batteries are connected to the inverter? Should I get new engine batteries? Is this normal? I used to be able to dry camp for days in my 2006 Discovery, only turning on the gen once a day or so or if I needed A/C.

I bought an Ecoflow Delta Pro and thought I could just plug my 30A cord into it and run the RV like plugging it into a campground shore power. Wrong! Ran the plug through my window and plugged it in and nothing. I posted on
an Ecoflow FB page, and there's lots of suggestions about solar and stuff with lots of me doing technical things I don't have time right now to even try (if I can even figure out how to do them!)

So does anyone know if I should try replacing the engine batteries?? In a couple days I'll be in an RV Park so will have power. But until then?

Thanks for any advice.
Hi Helenozee- So as many have mentioned already, you basically have two systems in your coach, The chassis batteries that run the chassis ONLY, including starting the engine and all of the chassis functions/gauges, etc.

The second system is the house batteries. These do exactly as the name implies, they support all of the functions of the RV (House). Within the "house" are two separate systems; the 12 volts systems and the 120v systems. For the sake of this conversation, I won't go into all of that.

Getting to your questions, there is a lot of misinformation out there about what an inverter does and how it does it. It is not a magic box that makes 120v out of 12v which I will explain.

An inverter takes 12 volts and converts it into 120 volts but in order for this to happen, your 12v system must be able to support that conversion. To make 120 volts at say 30 amps, you will need batteries that have a capacity of 12 volts at 350 amps minimum, more commonly called amp hours (AH). All batteries are rated that way. Also mentioned in one of the posts is that standard Lead Acid batteries won't last long, at the very minimum you should have AGM batteries, preferred would be Lithium batteries.

So the question is, what does your inverter supply? If it is only the refrigerator, which is most likely a 15 amp circuit, you only need 12v batteries that will supply a minimum of 200 AH.

Now the confusing stuff, how long should the batteries last for an inverter? Well, that depends on what you have. There are simple formulas for this;

If you have a standard fridge, 120v/1.5 amps, to convert to watts you multiply volts x amps= watts, or in this case, 180 watts. Why do you care? Because this will tell you how long a battery supplying an inverter will last.

Now, the inverter, I don't know the specs but assuming it does the fridge only, a battery that is 12v/200 AH will produce 2400 watts of power. This means that 2400 watts of battery, divided by 180 watts of refrigerator draw, your batteries in theory should run your fridge for 13 hours.

Now, most RV's have battery banks of at least two batteries or more depending on the size of your RV. So, in theory, the more AMP Hours you have (AH, add all of the batteries together), the longer the runtime off grid.

So, if you have two batteries, 300 AH each, you have a 600 AH capacity that would run your fridge for about 40 hours (600AH x 12v = 7200 watts , divided by 180 watts fridge draw = 40 hours.

Last, I should mention that Lead Acid and AGM batteries lose voltage power as they are discharged whereas Lithium batteries maintain 12 volts until that are completely discharged.

Well, as above sorry for the long email but I hope the information makes sense and will provide some information on what batteries to buy/use moving forward. Safe Travels!
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Old 11-12-2024, 01:02 PM   #27
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Another vote for Auto Generator Start.

On my 2015 Excursion I have 4 LA batteries, 2000w PSW Inverter and residential refrigerator.

When boondocking, the AGS is set to start based on low battery voltage. With quiet hours set, the generator will start in the morning to recharge the batteries and then in the evening to top them off prior to quiet time.

We don't do anything to try to extend battery time by unplugging devices that may still draw power when off, such as tv's, recorders, etc. We coordinate microwave, hair dryer or other high current devices with when the generator is already running to charge the batteries. We did this for 4 nights in Yellowstone without having any issues. Never touched the generator controls once the AGS was set up. I've heard that turning off the ice maker may reduce electrical consumption somewhat.

As far as your chassis battery, I agree with what's already been mentioned. Mine will show low battery when first started after about 15 seconds, the voltage gauge on the dash will jump to 13.6 volts charging, this is confirmed by the scan gauge.
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Old 11-13-2024, 05:24 PM   #28
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....


.... Also mentioned in one of the posts is that standard Lead Acid batteries won't last long, at the very minimum you should have AGM batteries, preferred would be Lithium batteries.

....
My 4 GC2 FLA batteries get the job done in my MH at a much lower cost. This is true if you manually start your generator based on experience or use an auto start.

In some marine applications, AGM are worth the cost but not for how I use my sailboat. Some with an RV like not adding water to FLA.

If you change the design of your MH by putting in a residential fridge, you may need to learn how the magic boxes work.
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