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Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 08:40 AM

I suspect this is a bad thing for obvious reasons.

I fell asleep on the couch with the fireplace on (it was cold) and when I woke up the fireplace was off. It took a few minutes for that to register and when it did, I thought maybe one of the cats knocked the plug out of the wall but no.....this is what I found. It DID NOT trip the breaker. I guess I should be glad to be alive and that nothing else happened and I, upon seeing the breaker had not tripped, shut it off myself. There is no power on the dedicated line to the fireplace at this time.

Here are my questions:

I'm guessing I have a faulty breaker so that should be replaced, right?

Should I get a regular residential electrician to come out and check ALL my lines (because now I'm traumatized by this and a fire is my biggest fear - it actually was before this incident).

I'm certain that a..... oh.. what do you call it? That test where they check the integrity of the coating over the wires... starts with an "m".... I think that needs to be done, OR would any dealership be able to handle this?

Do I need a new fireplace or would it be sufficient to change the electric plug and line and the wall outlet? I really love having a fireplace...I don't want to not have one.

Should I have a complete check on all the electrical lines?
What else should I do?
What other options do I have?

I am in a 2006 Itasca Ellipse 40FD in case that information matters.

I'm not in a hurry to do anything since I have the power shut down on that line but I do need the information for future reference. Thank you.

PJStough · 02-12-2021, 08:46 AM

We have a 2005 Winnebago Voyage, and had a 1500 watt electric heater plugged into an outlet and melted the outlet. The problem was that the cheap outlet only had the wires punched into a slot and not held in place by a screw like most outlets have, and the wire was making poor contact with the outlet, causing heating and subsequent melting of the outlet.

Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 08:49 AM

So.... what lengths did you go to so you could use that outlet again and not be afraid of it happening again or starting a fire?

Also.... since I had this happen a couple weeks ago, I have discovered that there are NO GFCI or AFCI outlets in here at all!!!!! Did you find the same? Looks like all the outlets will need to be swapped out...

I just pulled it back out of the wall and the back is enclosed. I can't even see how the wires attach.

aog928 · 02-12-2021, 08:55 AM

Usually a loose connection on the outlet causes this. If the wire is stabbed into the back instead of screwed onto it causes this. Wire type (copper vs. aluminum). Once it starts getting hot the problem gets worse. I cant make out the connector on the end of the cord, is it 2 or 3 prong? The breaker would not have tripped because the wire did not get hot, the receptacle did.

**Lt Dan** · 02-12-2021, 08:56 AM

You don't necessarily have a bad breaker since they only sense overload conditions and heat can build up without the circuit being overloaded. Heat builds up when there is too much resistance in the plug and looking at yours there is a buildup of corrosion on the male plug. That alone can cause the plug and outlet to overheat. I would replace that outlet with one that has screw post connectors as those have better contact than the push in type commonly used in RVs. The plug on the end of the fireplace needs to be replaced also due to the burns and corrosion.

You should have "master" gfci outlets in the coach that control other outlets downstream. I think they are required by NRVIA standards. A gfci also wouldn't trip on this condition as it requires a sensed short to ground before it trips.

TXiceman · 02-12-2021, 08:57 AM

An electric fireplace should be on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. A 15 amp plug is marginal for use if there is nothing else on the circuit.

A 1500 Watt heater is drawing 12.5 amps at 120 vac.
A 1800 Watt heater is drawing 15.0 amps at 120 vac.

If you have a weak connection or a poor receptacle, the resistance there will casue a lot of heat.

Ken

Ken

igave · 02-12-2021, 08:59 AM

I think someone previously had worked over your system given that outlet type and no GFI. If you use a mobile rv tech I’d make sure beforehand that they are well versed in rv electrical systems; or, if a regular electrician then find one who understands the differences between an rv and house. Either way, I just wouldn’t feel comfortable without having a pro go thru it.

Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 09:01 AM

This is the back of the outlet... should I pull the white part off?

**hamm2018** · 02-12-2021, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animalangel

This is the back of the outlet... should I pull the white part off?

Yes pull the cover off, it looks like there could be damage to the wire to the outlet. If enough wire cut it off, and install a new outlet. I would check the cord from the fireplace, and if the fireplace is still good replace the whole cord.
You can get a replacement cord at places like Lowes, Home Depot, etc...
As said before there should be a GFCI outlet around were water is, bathroom, kitchen area. Should just be one GFCI as these things are daisy chained together, so if the first outlet install a GFCI there and it covers the compete circuit.

Simple way the determine which outlets are on which circuit is to hook up a 120v portable fan/light to an outlet and turn breakers off.
Write down which outlet goes to which breaker, then look and try to find the first breaker in that circuit if not GFCI replace with a GFCI if you like. At this time also make sure the breakers are not over rated for the circuit, you do not want a 30 amp breaker on a 15 amp circuit, defeats the purpose of the breaker

Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 09:14 AM

Great answers, so far.

Lt.Dan...Do you think it would be safe to just replace the plug on the cord to the fireplace? The wires should be ok going into the unit, itself? Can an electrician verify that?

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TXiceman...... The breaker on that line is marked as 15 and it's paired with a 15 amp for a dishwasher that I don't have. I should probably shut that one down too, huh? Would it be a good idea to replace that breaker with a 20 amp?

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igave.... I have the same suspicion as you do about the electrical having been reworked. The entire interior of this coach appears to have been completely reworked, remodeled, redone and not entirely the right way, either. I've found all kinds of very expensive issues that need repairs (rear axle, slide out off kilter, all new padded vinyl ceiling through out (and not glued at all inside cabinets)..... I think the couch and cockpit chairs were recovered, all new cabinetry, new carpeting, somewhat new laminate flooring... I'm finding all kinds of weird stuff happened in here but I can't figure out what it was. That said, it would not surprise me to fine the electricity all redone (and not by an electrician).

I will definitely get a pro to go through it but do I go with a dealership or a residential guy who is familiar with RV's?

twinboat · 02-12-2021, 09:23 AM

Do not replace the breaker with a larger one. The breaker protects the wiring in the wall from overheating in the case of a short circuit. That wire is only rated for 15 amps.

Unless you can reach the sink while touching the fireplace, you do NOT need a GFCI device.

What happened to your plug and outlet happened right there, nothing else is wrong. Nothing needs to be changed except they receptcal and plug.

Did you look for GFCI circuit breakers in the main breaker panel ?

Not every outlet will have GFCI protection, only outside and near water .

Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 09:24 AM

hamm2018..... Broke the white part off on that side in the previous picture and couldn't lift the other side to get that back off. Flipped it over and now I know why.... it's all melted together. I'm not getting it off.

Looks like I'll have to buy a bunch of new outlets, the RIGHT kind (wire under screw back) as well as a couple GFCI and AFCI and then have a pro come in and check everything out and install them all where ever they need to be.

Animalangel · 02-12-2021, 09:26 AM

twinboat..... I know that the fireplace does not need a GCFI (or AFCI) outlet but I need them in other places in the motorhome - there are ZERO in here. There should be at least one GFCI in the bathroom where I plug my hair dryer in right next to the sink, for instance. There is just a regular outlet there.

10-4 on not replacing the breaker with a 20. Understood.

twinboat · 02-12-2021, 09:35 AM

One GFCI outlet will feed many others. It doesn't have to be in the bathroom, it could be anywhere. But if none can be found and the circuit breakers are not GFCI type, you have 2 choices.

Install GFCI outlets where they are needed or swap in GFCI breakers to the spots feeding the outlets near the sinks.