Ethanol Fuel

[Traveler78]

Just read an interesting story on a neighboring website where a writer proclaimed Ethanol Fuel is a political issue and not a mechanical issue.
I beg to differ. Ethanol fuel came out a hundred years ago but wasn't widely used until Congress mandated it in 2005. Vehicles produced since then are programmed and mechanized to handle the alcohol. Vehicles prior to 2005 are not which means metal, rubber, plastic, and other materials coming into contact with alcohol will deteriorate faster with a plethora of problems. With over 50 years of experience in maintenance, this is an ongoing mechanical problem. I've repaired and witnessed dozens, if not hundreds, of issues with ethanol in older engines. I use ethanol free fuel in all of my small engines and vehicles older than 2005. As for my 2000 Southwind (140K+ miles), I use additives to the fuel that negate the corrosive effects of ethanol/water. Never a problem.
Ethanol may be political to a politician but it's detrimental to older engines.
And that's a FACT.

[Ray,IN]

Today Ethanol accounts for over 60% of all corn grown in Indiana.
I haven't driven my 1932 Chevrolet in over 20 years, when I do, what additive should I buy and use? The tank now has 21+ yr old gas that must be drained.
I also have a 2008 genset with destroyed gas lines, that must be replaced. What type of gas line should be used on both engines?

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by Traveler78

Just read an interesting story on a neighboring website where a writer proclaimed Ethanol Fuel is a political issue and not a mechanical issue.
I beg to differ. Ethanol fuel came out a hundred years ago but wasn't widely used until Congress mandated it in 2005. Vehicles produced since then are programmed and mechanized to handle the alcohol. Vehicles prior to 2005 are not which means metal, rubber, plastic, and other materials coming into contact with alcohol will deteriorate faster with a plethora of problems. With over 50 years of experience in maintenance, this is an ongoing mechanical problem. I've repaired and witnessed dozens, if not hundreds, of issues with ethanol in older engines. I use ethanol free fuel in all of my small engines and vehicles older than 2005. As for my 2000 Southwind (140K+ miles), I use additives to the fuel that negate the corrosive effects of ethanol/water. Never a problem.
Ethanol may be political to a politician but it's detrimental to older engines.
And that's a FACT.

I'm certainly not condoning the addition of ethanol to gasoline but I do have to say that I've only experienced minor issues with its use. Except for deterioration of fuel lines on a weedeater and chainsaw, I have not had any other problems running it in my older Jeeps, the 03 motorhome, and all my other gasoline fired engines.

Ethanol is limited to 10% around my area, at least for now, which may be why I haven't seen problems.

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

I'm certainly not condoning the addition of ethanol to gasoline but I do have to say that I've only experienced minor issues with its use. Except for deterioration of fuel lines on a weed eater and chainsaw, I have not had any other problems running it in my older Jeeps, the 03 motorhome, and all my other gasoline fired engines.

Ethanol is limited to 10% around my area, at least for now, which may be why I haven't seen problems.

The only thing you will notice is lower mpg when ethanol is substituted for gas. I tried E85 in a couple of Avalanches rated to use it and found that it was less efficient than pump gas. There was a cost difference, but also much lower efficiency. When I calculated cost per mile, the E85 cost more than E10. I suspect the E10 is also slightly less efficient than gas without ethanol.

[Traveler78]

For an older, unused vehicle,1932, absolutely drain and flush the tank as you probably have rust/corrosion. Clean the carburetor, especially the jets. Replace the fuel filter. Replace your lines with standard fuel lines at any auto parts store. And, change your oil.

[code2e]

Burning any amount of Ethanol yields less energy than straight gasoline. That is a fact. Except for engines modified to handle it, degradation of some components occurs. If you have a vehicle that gets say, 20 MPG on gasoline, it will likely get 18 MPG on 10% ethanol. Negates any gasoline savings. Add to that the fuel consumption of farm equipment used to harvest corn used only for ethanol production. A huge waste of fuel with little to no benefit to the environment. The world would be better off using straight gasoline. Farmers can grow food.

[House Husband]

Now you tell me that Ethanol is hard on my 1990 F150, 1995 Bounder, 1996 John Deere tractor, and other lawn equipment. I've had no problems with Ethanol but now that I know, every thing will probably go wrong.
Really, if the original hoses, injectors and 3 fuel pumps on my F150 are still functional, how can Ethanol be a problem?

Richard

[PJStough]

Originally Posted by code2e

Burning any amount of Ethanol yields less energy than straight gasoline. That is a fact. Except for engines modified to handle it, degradation of some components occurs. If you have a vehicle that gets say, 20 MPG on gasoline, it will likely get 18 MPG on 10% ethanol. Negates any gasoline savings. Add to that the fuel consumption of farm equipment used to harvest corn used only for ethanol production. A huge waste of fuel with little to no benefit to the environment. The world would be better off using straight gasoline. Farmers can grow food.

The more ethanol we use the less gasoline we need.

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by House Husband

Now you tell me that Ethanol is hard on my 1990 F150, 1995 Bounder, 1996 John Deere tractor, and other lawn equipment. I've had no problems with Ethanol but now that I know, every thing will probably go wrong.
Really, if the original hoses, injectors and 3 fuel pumps on my F150 are still functional, how can Ethanol be a problem?

Richard

10% ethanol in regular gas is not a problem for the older engines. That's why it is limited to 10%. Try burning E85 in any engine not rated for it will leave you stranded with a serious repair bill.

[Crasher]

What I found in post #4 was that I had a 26% drop in mpg with E85. So if your engine can safely use E-85 the price needs to be 26% less than regular gas. Every car can have a different result, so each person should check a few tanks and see how it affects the cost per mile.

[PJStough]

Originally Posted by Crasher

10% ethanol in regular gas is not a problem for the older engines. That's why it is limited to 10%. Try burning E85 in any engine not rated for it will leave you stranded with a serious repair bill.

What do you believe will happen if someone were to run E-85 in a vehicle made for only E-10?

[Bobby F]

Ethanol has a GGE (equivalent energy) of gasoline of 1.5. Takes 1.5 times the volume of ethanol to produce the same energy as a gallon of gas. As for "it causes less gasoline demand", it would be cheaper and simpler and probably just as clean in the end to allow more domestic gasoline production to replace the ethanol; easier on our older machines too, and more energy-dense to carry (i.e., more miles per tankful.)

I have family heavily into ethanol production, and I understand that it's a good way to generate an economic return for one portion of the country instead of shipping money to other states. But with the coming food/crop shortage, I think they'll sell all their corn anyway, and when ethanol stops being a good way to deal with surplus, it loses lots of its justification.

[PJStough]

Originally Posted by Bobby F

Ethanol has a GGE (equivalent energy) of gasoline of 1.5. Takes 1.5 times the volume of ethanol to produce the same energy as a gallon of gas. As for "it causes less gasoline demand", it would be cheaper and simpler and probably just as clean in the end to allow more domestic gasoline production to replace the ethanol; easier on our older machines too, and more energy-dense to carry (i.e., more miles per tankful.)

What so you see that is limiting domestic gasoline production?

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by Bobby F

Ethanol has a GGE (equivalent energy) of gasoline of 1.5. Takes 1.5 times the volume of ethanol to produce the same energy as a gallon of gas. As for "it causes less gasoline demand", it would be cheaper and simpler and probably just as clean in the end to allow more domestic gasoline production to replace the ethanol; easier on our older machines too, and more energy-dense to carry (i.e., more miles per tankful.)

I have family heavily into ethanol production, and I understand that it's a good way to generate an economic return for one portion of the country instead of shipping money to other states. But with the coming food/crop shortage, I think they'll sell all their corn anyway, and when ethanol stops being a good way to deal with surplus, it loses lots of its justification.

So Bobby when was the last time you had a some field corn?

Field corn is animal food. The feed value is improved when ethanol is produced.

Ethanol is a biodegradable additive that reduces emissions. It replaced MBTE which was toxic and polluting groundwater.

My sail boat has a 40 year old, 30 hp tractor engine (atomic 4) and my TOAD is a '95 Honda and had a '89 Ford Ranger running great with 275 miles when I sold it.

So this mechnical engineer has seen no problem with ethanol. I have seen lots of problems when people let fuel sit for long periods of time. Since 2006 my boat has started up just fine after 6 months not being used. There are things I do the last time I run it and the first time I run it.