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Old 12-02-2021, 06:58 PM   #1
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Exhaust brake?

Hi friends.
Do they have exhaust brakes on gassers? Do they work well?
Can you add exhaust brakes to a gasser?
Any complications with the addon EB?
I thank you.
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Old 12-02-2021, 07:55 PM   #2
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Because of the differences between , diesel and gas engines , exhaust brake isn't a requirement on gas engines .

Diesel engines , without exhaust brake ( or compression brake ) provide little hold back off throttle .
Gas engines , will provide hold back off throttle , and the new programs for transmission gear down do very well to aide downhill hold back , and speed control.
The BIG key , on both diesel and gas coaches is to work to maintain a " control speed " starting at the top of a long downhill . Remember , it's easier to accelerate downhill than to slow ; your coach weighs MANY times more than a car or SUV and requires different driving style !
If you forget what speed and gear you were in on the climb , use 45 MPH as your control speed at the summit; and use transmission gear and service brakes to keep your downhill speed to as close to 45 as possible .
DO NOT ride the brakes , use the service brakes to slow to 40 then coast using the engine hold back to allow the brakes to cool .
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:30 PM   #3
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It is generally accepted that the gasoline engine doesn't develop enough compression.
Quote:
...a gasoline engine under deceleration runs with a closed throttle that prevents free flow of air into the cylinders, resulting in little pressure to release at the top of the compression stroke. The closed throttle provides engine braking by forcing the engine to generate a vacuum between the throttle and the cylinders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...e_engine_brake

You may know that Chessie Cummins, the founder of Cummins Engine invented the "Jake Brake" after he retired and Cummins Engine wasn't interested in the brake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clessie_Cummins https://thebrakereport.com/jake-brak...ction-braking/

Anyway if you got the $$ you can install a electromagnetic retarder if you feel the desire. I looked into it when I bought my current ride but the price point was to high. Would I like it, oh yeah, but I feel the tow/haul mode on the V-10 six speed works damn good. Trips off Cabbage, Willamette Pass and Lewiston Grade are non-events.
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Because of the differences between , diesel and gas engines , exhaust brake isn't a requirement on gas engines ....
Are you saying that they ARE required on diesel engines?
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:59 PM   #5
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Exhaust and compression brakes are not required on diesel engines, although they are common on on-road vehicles.

Never seen one on an off-road or marine diesel.
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
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Are you saying that they ARE required on diesel engines?

Maybe , the more correct statement would be , " I wouldn't want a diesel powered coach or pick up for towing without , an exhaust or compression brake system."

Service brakes will last 3 to 5 times as long when a diesel powered ; coach or pick up; has an exhaust or compression brake, and it's used to it's best advantage.
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR View Post
It is generally accepted that the gasoline engine doesn't develop enough compression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...e_engine_brake

You may know that Chessie Cummins, the founder of Cummins Engine invented the "Jake Brake" after he retired and Cummins Engine wasn't interested in the brake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clessie_Cummins https://thebrakereport.com/jake-brak...ction-braking/

Anyway if you got the $$ you can install a electromagnetic retarder if you feel the desire. I looked into it when I bought my current ride but the price point was to high. Would I like it, oh yeah, but I feel the tow/haul mode on the V-10 six speed works damn good. Trips off Cabbage, Willamette Pass and Lewiston Grade are non-events.
Thank you RRR. You pretty much answered my question. I have been on all those passes you mentioned. Also, I used to drive lowboy hauling our equipment so I pretty much know about gear selection etc on grades. Took a D-8 off of Mt. Hood once in the snow and ice in spots. I think I was in granny or 1st all the way down with an occasional Jake, very carefully and only when straight. I have had a few exciting moments hauling equipment.
Thanks gang.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:00 AM   #8
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The design of a gas engines inherently provides "engine braking" when coasting, so there is no reason to add an exhaust or engine brake to a gas engine. A diesel, on the other hand, allows air to flow freely thru the engine when coasting and produces almost no resistance, so adding an exhaust or engine brake provides a way to slow the vehicle without using the service brakes.


There actually was a gas engine exhaust brake on the market for several years, the Mountain Tamer. There wasn't much demand for it and the company went out of business many years ago.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:14 AM   #9
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Consider this example with a shop vac. If you hold your hand over the intake you can hear the motor slow down, same as if you hold your hand over the shop vac exhaust the motor will slow down. A gas engine has an intake butterfly which when closed will provide resistance (braking) similar to blocking the intake of the shop vac.

I will add that a gasoline engine (as from the factory) would not do well with an exhaust brake as the pollution control systems such as the exhaust gas recirculation would build up too much pressure and cause problems, likely other components as well.

In any case, just like the above example, if you block either the shop vac's intake or exhaust the motor will slow down, and if you block the intake and listen to the motor slow down, then also block the shop vac' exhaust you will not hear any more resistance (the shop vac's motor will not slow down further) as if there isn't any air coming in from the intake, then there also isn't much if any exhaust to restrict therefore there isn't any advantage to add an exhaust brake to a gasoline engine. ~CA
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:23 AM   #10
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Ok, now you got me thinking, watch out, lol.
As a heavy equipment operator, retired. Scrapers,you might know what they are, and if I remember correctly, they have a retarder which I believe works off of the transmission. It reacts slower but it works pretty well.
So, I am wondering if a retarder is possible in a Gas rig?
Just wondering now for conversation.
Thank you all.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge68474 View Post
Ok, now you got me thinking, watch out, lol.
As a heavy equipment operator, retired. Scrapers,you might know what they are, and if I remember correctly, they have a retarder which I believe works off of the transmission. It reacts slower but it works pretty well.
So, I am wondering if a retarder is possible in a Gas rig?
Just wondering now for conversation.
Thank you all.
I believe that "retarders" come in different styles, a jake brake for example could be considered a retarder. For heavy equipment (or not so heavy) such as with my Bobcat, if you restrict the flow of the hydraulic fluid going to the drive motors then you have braking, if you stop the flow altogether then the bobcat will not move even if on a steep hill (therefore they have no friction brakes). I seem to remember that some larger trucks for road use did have transmission retarders however you can't simply add that to a transmission that wasn't built with that in mind.
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Old 12-03-2021, 11:36 AM   #12
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Hi Craig.
Hydraulics. So into todays world of equipment and actually a long time now, you probably know this, hydrostatic. Sounds like your Bobcat is hydrostatic. A lot of machinery these days are hydrostatic. I also ran a garbage compactor, a few different models, and they were hydrostatic. The last one I ran weighed 120,000 #'s. And yes, let off the throttle, they stop, even on a steep hill. They may slip a little but not much. I'm trying to remember if todays dozers are hydrostatic. I think they are, at least to a point, thinking if they will hold themselves on a hill, good possibility. Darn it, I can't really remember, and I have many hours on them, hmm, lol. Anyway, good conversation and I enjoyed your comments as well as the others.
Thank you.
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Old 12-03-2021, 11:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge68474 View Post
Ok, now you got me thinking, watch out, lol.
As a heavy equipment operator, retired. Scrapers,you might know what they are, and if I remember correctly, they have a retarder which I believe works off of the transmission. It reacts slower but it works pretty well.
So, I am wondering if a retarder is possible in a Gas rig?
Just wondering now for conversation.
Thank you all.
CAT on the road engine, 1693 early 1970's, had a BrakeSaver that worked off the engine oil. Good video that explains it.

I priced the https://www.telmausa.com/ when I bought my 2016 and I think it was around $4,000.
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:03 PM   #14
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Vacuum
Gas engines develop vacuum which will cause engine braking when coasting
Restricting the exhaust adds nothing
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