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09-22-2023, 11:42 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 42
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Fire Suppression Options for Li-Ion Upgrade?
I'm about to install a LifePo4 upgrade for my house batteries (4x 6V flooded -> 2x 12V LifePO4). Going from 450ah flooded to 920ah lithium. Also swapping out my BIM for a 60a DC-DC (to save my alternator) and adding a Victron SmartShunt as well.
While I am confident in my ability to perform this upgrade, I do not share the same level of confidence in insurance companies should something go wrong!
So my question - what options are out there for an automatic fire suppression system that I can install that will work on lithium fires?? Any help is appreciated!
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09-23-2023, 06:18 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,704
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While I am not suggesting that you Don't bother with a system like that, there is a huge difference between Li-Ion batteries and the LiFePO batteries that you are going to install. The dangers/risk of fire is greatly reduced with LiFePO (LFP) batteries and you probably need to research the difference between the two a bit more.
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2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel King Ranch 4x4
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09-23-2023, 09:50 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 9,120
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As mentioned above there is a big difference between the types of Lithium Ion batteries that are prone to cause fires in EV's and laptop computers, vs the LiFePo4 batteries you plan to install. The biggest difference is that LiFePo4 does not tend to combust with large flames, though if punctured will tend to smolder and spew fumes and smoke. Therefore your best defense may be to surround it with flame resistant material that will not readily combust.
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09-24-2023, 10:38 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Braidwood Il.
Posts: 8,301
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I would be way more concerned with LP fridge and engine than "lifepo4" batts. With hydrogen generated by acid batts..... lifepo4 is probably safer.
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09-24-2023, 01:19 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wandering below the Gnat Line
Posts: 2,174
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If they're in a closed compartment (not open bottom or vented) than any automatic halotron or other clean-agent gas extinguisher should work, as would of course AFFF. If the compartment is open to the interior or otherwise vented CAG or the exploding-tube systems will not work. Of course the FLA batteries will need to be in a vented compartment.
Lifepo4 batteries are an entirely different chemistry than the lithium batteries used in phones, laptops etc.
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09-24-2023, 09:56 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 2,228
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I had NIRVC install the Proteng Fire Suppression System. It’s pretty impressive.
https://proteng.com
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09-24-2023, 10:33 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 1,963
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I think the OP got the title wrong and is clearly installing LifePO4.
These batteries now have built in safety features that flooded and AGM will never have. I don't see them as increasing risk of fire, quite the opposite. Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible. Poor wiring is a bigger danger.
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09-24-2023, 10:39 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wandering below the Gnat Line
Posts: 2,174
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Straight from Proteng's website:
> Designed to suppress fires in enclosed areas
I have no doubt it works in an enclosed area, but an engine, generator or battery bay usually isn't enclosed. I think AFFF would be best but those systems appear harder to find these days.
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09-24-2023, 10:50 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Lansing MI
Posts: 2,826
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Here's a post from what many consider to be an expert on LiFePo4 batteries. Happy reading. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ca...way-event.999/
I would be much more concerned about other potential sources of fire, like the kitchen stove.
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2017 Nexus Ghost 36DS, 2014 Ford F150 Long Bed
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09-25-2023, 12:13 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceclimber
I think the OP got the title wrong and is clearly installing LifePO4.
These batteries now have built in safety features that flooded and AGM will never have. I don't see them as increasing risk of fire, quite the opposite. Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible. Poor wiring is a bigger danger.
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Thanks all for your helpful feedback. To be clear, I am very familiar with the various battery chemistries and LifePO4 is one TYPE of "lithium ion" batteries, it is not one or the other.
Lithium Cobalt Oxide, Lithium Manganese Oxide, Lithium Iron Phosphate, etc....all use "lithium ions"
All batteries can catch fire, though as pointed out here, some (LFP variants in particular) are far safer, especially when it comes to punctures. My particular batteries also have built in BMS and a whole host of other safety measures, but I was still interested in some form of fire suppression just as a last resort.
I was looking at one of the "combusting tube" solutions that uses Dupont FE-36 and states "up to 20 cubic feet of enclosed space. Now, these batteries will not be fully enclosed, I would say roughly 80-90% enclosed (behind a bay door, coach floor above it, battery platform below, adjacent bays on left/right, and engine/intake to the last remaining side.
For a couple hundred bucks I don't think it'll hurt. I did confirm that it functions for Class A, B, C fires and LifePO4 doesn't use lithium 'metal', so it wouldn't fall into the "D" class.
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09-25-2023, 12:15 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 42
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Agree 100%. My coach fortunately does not have propane, but rather diesel/electric hydronic heating and a residential 120V fridge. Heavy electrical loads is why I'm here talking about lithium upgrades
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09-25-2023, 12:29 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks
Straight from Proteng's website:
> Designed to suppress fires in enclosed areas
I have no doubt it works in an enclosed area, but an engine, generator or battery bay usually isn't enclosed. I think AFFF would be best but those systems appear harder to find these days.
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It was originally made for the racing industry, so engine compartments, battery compartments, and even propane compartments are just fine.
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09-25-2023, 09:59 PM
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#13
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Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks
Straight from Proteng's website:
> Designed to suppress fires in enclosed areas
I have no doubt it works in an enclosed area, but an engine, generator or battery bay usually isn't enclosed. I think AFFF would be best but those systems appear harder to find these days.
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At Proteng we actually measure those areas for volume like we do any enclosed area and find that when we use a large enough tube with the correct amount of suppressant in it, Proteng can be very efficient in an engine compartment, generator and battery bay. Please feel free to reach out with further questions.
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