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Old 03-07-2018, 09:46 AM   #43
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Tj, I appreciate your years of service and expertise, but is an automatic fire fighting system in a MH that complicated? You've pointed out what doesn't work and why, good info. But what will work?

Its easy to figure where-Gen compartment, inv/batt compartment, fridge, engine. Now, each one may need a slightly different system-what is it??

I have no beef with the ARP device, but it won't put out a fire, it only reduces the chance for a refrig overheat situation. Still, good to have.

Since most MH are very similar in fire hazard and even layout, what is your recommendation for suppression systems that work?

And I hope that no one here ever has to face a fire, anywhere! Been there, done that.
The foam systems would be your best bet PROVIDED that it has some sort of signaling device to let you know it has activated so that you can quickly shut down the engine and pull over and hopefully keep most of the foam "blanket" in place. You then need to be prepared to fight the fire with additional foam extinguishers if your goal is to save your RV. I wouldn't recommend that unless you have the proper training!
Again, unless it's a somewhat air tight compartment the clean agent systems just wont work. The engine compartment and refrigerator compartments are not even close to being air tight.
I'm not aware of any UL/FM approved extinguishing systems for vehicles. What does that mean: There's no systems that have been tested and proven to extinguish an RV fire (that I could find).
Here's the best advise from the NFPA:

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/P...ire_Safety.pdf

If you have time on your hands you can access the NFPA code on RV's, unfortunately there's nothing on fire protection systems as I don't believe there are any approved ones:

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...tail?code=1192
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:50 AM   #44
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One other thing; Fire suppression to protect life, to give you 60 seconds (or whatever) to exit, I'm all for it. But to protect property? In a MH, Once you get even a small fire going, for all intents and purposes, isn't the rig a total loss? Say you had a small engine fire; A shop is replacing the wiring, how much replacement is enough? Can you really see all that has been damaged? Hoses, belts, tubing, etc-I'm not sure anything short of a replacement coach would satisfy me in that situation.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:57 AM   #45
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One other thing; Fire suppression to protect life, to give you 60 seconds (or whatever) to exit, I'm all for it. But to protect property? In a MH, Once you get even a small fire going, for all intents and purposes, isn't the rig a total loss? Say you had a small engine fire; A shop is replacing the wiring, how much replacement is enough? Can you really see all that has been damaged? Hoses, belts, tubing, etc-I'm not sure anything short of a replacement coach would satisfy me in that situation.


That’s pretty much my feeling as well. Detectors (fixed temperature heat detectors) located in the engine compartment, generator compartment and behind the fridge and tied into a horn strobe located in the passenger compartment would probably be the best most cost effective solution.
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:18 PM   #46
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Based on what I'm reading in this thread I'm kind of rethinking my desire to install a fire suppression system, especially since it's not going to be easy in our Ventana with the rear radiator.

Does anybody know of a fire warning system that can easily be installed so one would know if a fire has started (engine compartment, electrical bay, etc.) and pull over and get the hell away from the RV?
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:59 PM   #47
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TJ, my response wasn’t to your commentary, it was for the one who asked about purchasing a smaller extinguisher.

I have seen many Halon systems deployed under the hood of moving racecars and they worked extremely well. It is very easy to see when they deployed watching the videos. And this reminds me that I may know where two systems out of Busch cars are, for free 😁
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:07 AM   #48
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Here is a thread started by Puffdaddy51 on a fire he had in his MH. Based on all the problems he had in trying to get it repaired, my conclusion is GET OUT and LET IT BURN.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/engi...-a-355703.html
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:33 AM   #49
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Does anyone think you could hear a home smoke detector alarm go off while driving down the road? Could one or more of these be installed in the engine compartment, etc to alert you smoke or fire is present and give you time to pull over?

Or perhaps then have a foam system with a manual cable activation setup away from the rear of the coach? I had a simple cable activation system on my racecar and it worked real well.

Alarm is heard (from engine bay, refrigerator, inverter or battery compartment or wherever), pull over, shut down the engine and activate engine bay bottle or address other areas.......................in the yard I guess I need to install a detector, start generator, engine and radio and push press to test and listen to hear it.................might work????
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:40 AM   #50
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We lost our 2003 HR Endeavor DP to an engine fire in September 2017 on I-95. We didn't get any warning alarms etc. Just saw smoke, pulled over and unsuccessfully tried to put it out. Burned in minutes. DH got smoke inhalation trying to put it out and unhook toad. Total loss - both MH and toad. You can't see the interior from this photo but it was burned the entire length of the coach. All windows out and holes in the top. Insurance (Progressive) was great! Didn't have a fire suppression system other than two extinguishers.
I hope it never happens again, but if it does, we will get out and away as fast as possible and let it burn. Life is precious - stuff is not.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:33 AM   #51
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Excellent article on NASCAR fire protection:

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/N...AE7BDD5DFD28C9

As I said in post #41 I’m 110% for fire safety and installing fire protection. I don’t want people installing systems in their rigs and then thinking their safe and protected and no longer have to worry about a fire.
I’m not an expert in vehicle fire protection as I only installed systems in buildings, hangers, storage tanks etc. With that said the NASCAR systems in my opinion are meant to give the driver time to escape the car not extinguish the fire. If you look at the systems designed for racing they come with special nozzles designed for use with either the clean agent gasses or the foam. The systems that are being sold for RV use come equipped with a standard water spray sprinkler head that’s used on a sprinkler system you would see in an office building. Not sure how that would affect the application of the foam or clean agent.
If you read the above article it also comments about several reasons NASCAR doesn’t use foam.
If it gives you peace of mind by all means install the systems. But I would definitely make sure to have some sort of signaling device (horn/strobe) so you know the system has activated and you know to shut the engine down and pull over. JMHO.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #52
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First off I want to reiterate: PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHING SYSTEMS ARE DESIGNED FOR LIFE SAFETY. That being said if I were to install an ideal fire protection system it would be a multilevel system. It would combine temperature monitoring systems that would have a scalable alert system, it would be designed to activate fuel/power cut off switches that would activate prior to or in conjunction with suppression system. The system would be tailored for specific areas such as generator, engine compartment, refrigerator, electrical switching area, and kitchen. Alarm systems would be LOUD and Visual. Indicator panel would be mounted in the area of the dash and sleeping areas. In addition to the automatic extinguishing, notification, and shut off systems I would have at least 2 fire extinguishers mounted for easy access in the coach of at least a 2A rating ideally a A,B,C rating. Even with all that it still might not prevent a fire but you will have an increased amount of time to exit to a safe area and notify the fire department.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:59 AM   #53
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Aren't fire suppression systems common in boat engine compartments/bilges? They have heat/smoke detectors, alarms, etc. No sense in re-inventing the wheel??
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:29 AM   #54
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First off I want to reiterate: PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHING SYSTEMS ARE DESIGNED FOR LIFE SAFETY. That being said if I were to install an ideal fire protection system it would be a multilevel system. It would combine temperature monitoring systems that would have a scalable alert system, it would be designed to activate fuel/power cut off switches that would activate prior to or in conjunction with suppression system. The system would be tailored for specific areas such as generator, engine compartment, refrigerator, electrical switching area, and kitchen. Alarm systems would be LOUD and Visual. Indicator panel would be mounted in the area of the dash and sleeping areas. In addition to the automatic extinguishing, notification, and shut off systems I would have at least 2 fire extinguishers mounted for easy access in the coach of at least a 2A rating ideally a A,B,C rating. Even with all that it still might not prevent a fire but you will have an increased amount of time to exit to a safe area and notify the fire department.
Exactly!
Without shutting off the fuel supply your just going to feed the fire. Without shutting down the engine the fan is going to blow what ever suppressant your using around.
When a clean agent system activates in a computer room several things happen. An alarm is sounded to notify the occupants, a signal is sent to the alarm company who notifies the local FD and most importantly it shuts down the HVAC equipment and usually the computers in the room. Without shutting down the HVAC equipment you cant maintain the proper concentration of clean agent in the room to extinguish the fire and keep it extinguished.
Same thing with a commercial hood system. When the system activates the fans in the hood shut down, the appliances shut down and an automatic gas valve shuts off the gas supply.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:32 PM   #55
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Its funny I was just having this exact conversation about fire extinguishers and fire suppression systems on a Monaco website on Yahoo the past couple of days. TJ - my comments are almost 100% the same as yours concerning the system, etc. People get so defensive and have opinions - some even began to tell me I did not know what I was talking about. Then I explained my background - 35 years firefighting experience, last 14 years fire chief at the number one dept. of defense test, evaluation and research center. We tested and retested all sorts of fire suppressants for DoD. TJ what you have stated is so accurate - and they were my comments also - these systems by Mac the Fire Guy, some fire protection service, some other guys selling systems and equipment have NOTHING - no data, no quality testing that has been monitored and approved and like you I read their info and some things just did not make sense. I, like you don't think any system is all that they claim it to be - but if this is what someone wants, or it makes them feel better, go for it, it's their money. But now, speaking of money - these systems cost hundreds and even thousands of dollars - especially if you install multiple systems. I have $1000 deductible on my insurance - it would cost more in systems and the headache and continued maintenance and problems with these systems - for something that is not a 'proven' result - than it does for my deductible. I like you say - get the hell out of the coach, if you know what you are doing and have access to a decent size hand held fire extinguisher ( and no - not the little tiny ones by the passenger seat) and know how to use it - then try to extinguish it from outside. Most important, get yourself out, get everyone else out and any pets out - forget about the 'important' paperwork or that 'special' thing/item that's a keepsake, etc. The most important thing is life safety. We pay for insurance on these beasts for a reason - hopefully one never needs it, but that's what it is there for.
Some where in this message chain the discussion of halon was repeated and as stated, it is getting harder and harder to come buy and more expensive. Then someone mentioned FM2000 as a replacement - we spent years testing that stuff and in comparison to halon ( well there is no comparison) I would never use it in an automatic system - our testing clearly demonstrated it was not as effective as halon 1211 which is used in hand held and smaller tank systems. Halon 1301 was designed for systems in enclosed spaces to reach a concentration of 7% or better.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:08 PM   #56
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So "let it burn" is the answer? I'm not buying it. If that was the answer we'd have a huge number of mariners swimming every year.

So, "experts," what really does have a chance of supressing an engine fire in an open-bottom engine bay? I'm sure something does and then the only question is whether or not it's worth the price.
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