Future Motor Home Owner

[PBG]

I have to admit that the motor home bug has bit me bad and that's a good thing as I'm seeking some new adventures for the next stage of my life. Traveling around the country and relaxing while visiting various scenic locations (while avoiding the airports where I spent much of my business life) in a top-of-the-line motorhome with numerous creature comforts has been on my mind for decades. In fact, many years ago, I had dealings with the RVIA, but at period, I did not have the time to follow my dream. I'm now at the point in my life where I'm finally in a position to take action.

Without sounding crass, just like many current motor home owners, I spent much of my life working long hours and taking calculated risks and while it delivered good long-term results, it came with its share of sacrifices. Now, I'm finally at the point where I get to enjoy the benefits of all those years of long, stressful hours and am seeking just the right motor home where I can, on a part time basis, enjoy the balance of my healthy years.

So the decision to purchase has been made and I've decided to go all-in and purchase a top of the line motor home/coach. Price is not an obstacle, but I want to avoid a model that suffers many of the quality issues others have reported...ones that should have been identified long before delivery to the customer. I haven't yet settled in on a specific brand and am fortunate I can consider just about anything. Yes, I'd like to save money if I can, but that's not the goal here as I'm sure others will attest that owning a motor home is not about saving money...it's an investment in a positive, adventurous, active lifestyle. But, I have a dilemma and maybe there's no solution, but I'll ask the questions with the hope you can help.

The dilemma is that I'm seeking a feature-loaded, quality built model that, like many automotive products these days, will be reliable and not spend countless days/weeks/months queued in line at a shop awaiting service or having service delayed due to hard to get parts or while a dealer and factory duke it and waste valuable time debating items that seemingly should be covered by the warranty touted at the time of sale.

I'm also miffed on how long it can take to get an appointment for service for things that go wrong...even during the initial ownership period. Yes, I realize that nothing's perfect in this day and age, but at the prices motorhomes are selling for these days, I'm expecting a lot. I'm just asking to get value and peace of mine in what I'm paying for. Maybe I'm old school, but if you pay for a top of the line product, isn't it reasonable to expect top of the line service? For example, I currently own an exotic sports car and the few times it's needed service, it's a no brainer. The dealer offers to pick it up and deliver it just a few days later when the repair is completed. This car is the second one of the same brand I've purchased from the same dealer. When it was time to trade into the current model, the service I received made staying with the same dealer and brand a no brainer. While I'm not expecting a pickup/delivery service from a motor home dealer, I am expecting a timely repair protocol that gets things right the first time and I expect to be treated with respect. In reality, it shouldn't matter if you're purchasing a lower, middle or top of the line model, I'm a bit miffed at some of the service issues I'm reading about models from numerous manufacturers that fall in all price ranges.

It seems that in this market where most MH manufacturers are operating at maximum capacity and building as many coaches as they can push through the line, that while the profits are rising, it seems that initial quality, reliability and customer satisfaction seem to be sinking. I'm truly stunned that it takes quite a bit of time just to get the initial bugs identified and fixed and it seems that many of these things could have been solved by simply adding an enhanced quality control protocol. Possibly, each new model needs to be driven, camped-in and used by a factory tech for a thousand miles or so to identify things before it gets to the new buyer...possibly that's a solution.

Using automobiles as an example, prior to a new model being introduced, each new model has logged many miles of testing in a variety of terrains to make sure that it operates as reliable on the road as it looked on the drawing board and this happens prior to going into production. This technique assists in identifying issues and results in saving the manufacturers warranty repair costs that appear down the road and increases the likelihood of customer satisfaction. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems the MH manufacturers are simply skipping this step and new models simply go from the drawing board to the assembly line to the new owner.

So, after reading countless threads on this site, instead of beating my head against the wall and pulling out the remaining few hairs on my head, with this long preamble out of the way I thought I'd ask a few questions:

- Which manufacturers of high end motor homes are delivering models with the fewest initial defects and are designed to drive long periods with the confidence that it will make it to its destination and back home without needing on-the-road service?

- More importantly, when bugs or defects occur which manufacturers offer timely and painless methods of repairing these defects and treat the customer with dignity and respect? From visiting motor home dealerships it seems the staff are very helpful prior to the sale, but that level of support seems to whither away when it something goes wrong and the focus shifts from sales to service. Just from reading various threads it also seems that some manufacturers make you jump through hoops to get specific items repaired under warranty and the process seems drawn-out and tedious for the owner.

Yes, I realize that nothing's perfect in our world and since these models are assembled by hand, there will always be human error. It seems that an extra level of testing and quality control protocols is greatly needed and simple changes could lessen these issues and increase customer satisfaction, but so far, I'm not seeing the motor home industry doing too much to correct or change existing methods. But the difference in any industry is not how they handle things when they are good, it's how they handle things when things go wrong.

- With that said, is there a single manufacturer that stands above and takes the extra time to inspect each item and thoroughly test a new unit to ensure the chance of problems are minimized so that these motor homes can do what they are designed to do and that's simply to enjoy life while on the road or while camping?

- Would it be unheard of to volunteer to pay a few thousand dollars more to obtain this type of pre-testing service?

Yes, I know that some will say that there's not enough available personnel to accomplish this task, but let's look at the numbers for a moment:

If a manufacturer is completing one unit per day and it takes an additional three days over existing inspection methods to put it through its paces. Understanding there's a profit from each unit manufactured, if they set aside just a small percentage of that profit upfront to invest in additional "testing" personnel, wouldn't that decrease the number of potential future warranty claims and in turn, increase the long term profit and cultivate a new generation of loyal customers?

Sorry for the wordy post, but after reading countess posts I've found this to be a dilemma and I'm just trying to do my best to do my homework prior to placing an order for what I'm hoping will be a pleasurable experience for years to come.

[TMan59]

Just a thought, breakdown your questions into about 1, maybe 2 paragraghs.
It will be much easier, and far more likely to get good answers.

You may have cured cancer in the middle of that post but as soon as I saw how long it was I gave up.
I am trying to help, not be a jerk.

[austx]

Originally Posted by TMan59

Just a thought, breakdown your questions into about 1, maybe 2 paragraghs.
It will be much easier, and far more likely to get good answers.

You may have cured cancer in the middle of that post but as soon as I saw how long it was I gave up.
I am trying to help, not be a jerk.

I agree.

[Peralko]

If price is not an obstacle, the way to go would be a custom-built Prevost. If you order it without all the electronic/electric gizmos, you should have a good, reliable travel means.

[PBG]

Yes, sorry for the long post, but these are just my observations from an outsider who is attempting to make the leap into a major lifestyle change. I can only guess the manufacturers read the forums in order to keep a finger on the pulse of the owner/potential buyer community and it's my hope that maybe one of them will take the five minutes it takes to wade through my wordy thoughts and understand what keeps some of us from making a purchase decision.

And, it's not a cure for cancer, but it could be a cure for the headaches a number of motor home owners experience.

[PDR John]

Given your wants and needs; I would be inclined to send you towards Marathon, Liberty, Newell and Foretravel (IH 45 only).

And lately I've been reading not so great things happening in the Foretravel camp. I do not have first hand information, so take that with a grain of salt. I did, however, look over the Realm and was very disappointed.

I think it would be in your best interest to meet with those companies. They generally will send a tech to your location to handle issues.

[deandec]

I doubt that you would get a good payback paying a manufacturer for additional quality control on your single rig. Your and the manufacturer's perception of failed results for that money could be significantly different.

I believe that Foretravel and some of the Prevost Customizers will hold your hand through and after the purchase process in exchange for your One million plus dollars.

But, because these are complicated, mechanical, one-off rigs a disaster still could be lurking in the future post purchase at those prices.

So, only you can decide if the risk is worth the reward given the status of the beast.

["007"]

Each MFG is going to have what ifs and there will be nothing to stop a what if from happening, we all make mistakes no matter how hard we try not to.
Here is a what if from major MFG that is on going now I have had a few from different MFG's on coach's I have own and not with only the box on the chassis but the chassis itself.
Do not want to discourage you but any coach will not always be perfect if you expect it to be.
That's not to say some have never had major problems and will vouch that their MFG has the best coach to buy but someone down the street with same coach is up to his eyeballs with problems.
My attitude has been with a problem, fix the what if problem and move on and enjoy the lifestyle, problems will arise in most inopportune times even on your vacation.
Good luck in what you seek.

[Gordon Dewald]

You will have to make a risk/reward management decision. A dy stated money is not a guarantee of perfection. It may bring help faster and then again it may not. There is a thread (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/expe...er-243012.html) where the OP bought a King Aire and within three days a fitting had come apart. It can be the 25 cent part that brings a million dollar unit to a full stop.

IMO all manufacturers can have issues. We hear less about the Marathon issues because there are fewer of them out there. Newmar for example makes 40 coaches a week. That is a lot of coaches.

More people will post if they have issues that those who do not. On this forum there are several threads about "I feel good about my coach" while there are many threads that are asking for help about issues.

I met a fellow with a brand new Marathon at a campground in Pomona. He was on his way back to the factory. His list was huge with all kinds of minor and some major issues. His attitude was he was going to return it to the factory and pick it up when he was good and ready.

Nothing man made will be perfect. It could come close but it will eventually have to give you some issues. Like your example about car manufacturing most cars come out and work very well. Others spend a goodly amount of time in the shop for repairs.

IMO there is a couple ways to get the perfect coach.

One is build it yourself. You can pay attention to all of the fitting and finish issues during construction to get the best possible result you can. If it fails you will be imminently familiar with the construction.

The next way is to select a builder who will let you follow the coach throughout the entire build process. You can observe and reject anything that does not meet the standard. I think there are one or two manufacturers that will let you watch your coach being built.

The last way is to get a comprehensive pre delivery agreement. One where the tech will take as much time as required to have you go through each and every part of the coach.

IMO none of these options will give you any better coach than the other. With the reliance on third party components you will only get the coach that is as strong as it's weakest component.

Sometimes luck/bad luck is the biggest factor in the perfect coach. Good luck with your search

[PBG]

Originally Posted by PDR John

Given your wants and needs; I would be inclined to send you towards Marathon, Liberty, Newell and Foretravel (IH 45 only).

And lately I've been reading not so great things happening in the Foretravel camp. I do not have first hand information, so take that with a grain of salt. I did, however, look over the Realm and was very disappointed.

I think it would be in your best interest to meet with those companies. They generally will send a tech to your location to handle issues.

Thanks PDR John! Great minds must think alike as the information I've gathered so far is sending me in the same direction you're recommending.

Over the Summer I'm renting a Prevost XL for a two month trip around the country. It's my hope that by the end of the trip, I'll have learned the following:

1) Is this the lifestyle change I'm seeking?

2) Which motor home features and layout functions enhance the lifestyle?

During the camping time, I'm hoping to speak with as many owners as possible to learn from their experiences and to focus in on specific brands and models for my potential purchase. Considering, with a few exceptions, I can see and test drive most brands within a close proximity of my home, I have routed the itinerary to go through Nachodoches and already have an appointment to visit Foretravel. After the trip, if I decide to move forward, I'll most likely fly to Miami, OK to see Newell. I'm located not too far Liberty in Florida and will be making arrangements to see them and Marathon as well.

Initially my hope was to find a more reasonably priced, fully loaded model from the larger manufacturers. But it seems that with what I've read online and from what I've learned from others, I'll need to step away from the RVIA associated manufacturers to find the type of service I'm seeking.

This is a bit ironic for me as I was honored with the RVIA Journalist of the Year in the late 90's and was the keynote speaker at it's annual dealer meeting in Louisville. Now that it's time to purchase, I'm doing by best to stay within the product lines that support the RVIA, but for the type of after the sales service I'm seeking, this is proving to be difficult.

Sorry for the long post again. That's the old Journalist in me taking over!

[bulldog2]

in other words ,your NOT going to get a (Bentley,) even thru your going to pay more for it ,then the car .!

[hal1phx]

Through our investigation of nearly a couple of years prior to our purchase ... One conclusion we came to regarding brand new units .... Seems the majority spend time in the shop after purchase ... as you say .. nothing is perfect. IMO it would seem the best investment would be to choose a select number of brands, from there find the model that meets you needs/wants, the find a 1 year old unit. Generally the major bugs have been worked out and you've got some performance history. And of course I would purchase from a private party .... It just seems this would be the best investment .....

[PBG]

Originally Posted by hal1phx

IMO it would seem the best investment would be to choose a select number of brands, from there find the model that meets you needs/wants, the find a 1 year old unit. Generally the major bugs have been worked out and you've got some performance history. And of course I would purchase from a private party .... It just seems this would be the best investment .....

You make a very good point, but like many other things, different people see things in different manners.

Simply stated, in my case, I'm not looking at a motor home purchase as a financial investment, I'm looking at it as an investment in my lifestyle. Like just about everyone on this forum, I've worked for decades to get to the point where I am able to buy something of this magnitude. I look at houses the same way. The difference is, that depending on how long you've owned a house, you may get more back than you paid for it. Heck, I like my investments to go up in value and just about everything that has wheels depreciates quickly!

The point you made about buying one that someone else spent the time working out the bugs is exactly the point I'm attempting to make:

How many units does a manufacturer need to produce in order for it to learn how to make a model that leaves the factory without all the bugs and initial defects? How long will it take for the dealers to learn it needs more service bays and technicians in order to service the customers in a timely manner? Why is it that motor home owners seem to think this status quo is okay?

It seems that in this day and age, the motor home manufacturers would know how to produce models that leave the factory in excellent working order and not require a seemingly never ending punch list that takes many months to correct in order to make them work as advertised.

Maybe I'm living in a dream world...but I can dream, can't I?

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by PBG

I have to admit that the motor home bug has bit me bad and that's a good thing as I'm seeking some new adventures for the next stage of my life. Traveling around the country and relaxing while visiting various scenic locations (while avoiding the airports where I spent much of my business life) in a top-of-the-line motorhome with numerous creature comforts has been on my mind for decades. In fact, many years ago, I had dealings with the RVIA, but at period, I did not have the time to follow my dream. I'm now at the point in my life where I'm finally in a position to take action.



Without sounding crass, just like many current motor home owners, I spent much of my life working long hours and taking calculated risks and while it delivered good long-term results, it came with its share of sacrifices. Now, I'm finally at the point where I get to enjoy the benefits of all those years of long, stressful hours and am seeking just the right motor home where I can, on a part time basis, enjoy the balance of my healthy years.



So the decision to purchase has been made and I've decided to go all-in and purchase a top of the line motor home/coach. Price is not an obstacle, but I want to avoid a model that suffers many of the quality issues others have reported...ones that should have been identified long before delivery to the customer. I haven't yet settled in on a specific brand and am fortunate I can consider just about anything. Yes, I'd like to save money if I can, but that's not the goal here as I'm sure others will attest that owning a motor home is not about saving money...it's an investment in a positive, adventurous, active lifestyle. But, I have a dilemma and maybe there's no solution, but I'll ask the questions with the hope you can help.



The dilemma is that I'm seeking a feature-loaded, quality built model that, like many automotive products these days, will be reliable and not spend countless days/weeks/months queued in line at a shop awaiting service or having service delayed due to hard to get parts or while a dealer and factory duke it and waste valuable time debating items that seemingly should be covered by the warranty touted at the time of sale.



I'm also miffed on how long it can take to get an appointment for service for things that go wrong...even during the initial ownership period. Yes, I realize that nothing's perfect in this day and age, but at the prices motorhomes are selling for these days, I'm expecting a lot. I'm just asking to get value and peace of mine in what I'm paying for. Maybe I'm old school, but if you pay for a top of the line product, isn't it reasonable to expect top of the line service? For example, I currently own an exotic sports car and the few times it's needed service, it's a no brainer. The dealer offers to pick it up and deliver it just a few days later when the repair is completed. This car is the second one of the same brand I've purchased from the same dealer. When it was time to trade into the current model, the service I received made staying with the same dealer and brand a no brainer. While I'm not expecting a pickup/delivery service from a motor home dealer, I am expecting a timely repair protocol that gets things right the first time and I expect to be treated with respect. In reality, it shouldn't matter if you're purchasing a lower, middle or top of the line model, I'm a bit miffed at some of the service issues I'm reading about models from numerous manufacturers that fall in all price ranges.



It seems that in this market where most MH manufacturers are operating at maximum capacity and building as many coaches as they can push through the line, that while the profits are rising, it seems that initial quality, reliability and customer satisfaction seem to be sinking. I'm truly stunned that it takes quite a bit of time just to get the initial bugs identified and fixed and it seems that many of these things could have been solved by simply adding an enhanced quality control protocol. Possibly, each new model needs to be driven, camped-in and used by a factory tech for a thousand miles or so to identify things before it gets to the new buyer...possibly that's a solution.



Using automobiles as an example, prior to a new model being introduced, each new model has logged many miles of testing in a variety of terrains to make sure that it operates as reliable on the road as it looked on the drawing board and this happens prior to going into production. This technique assists in identifying issues and results in saving the manufacturers warranty repair costs that appear down the road and increases the likelihood of customer satisfaction. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems the MH manufacturers are simply skipping this step and new models simply go from the drawing board to the assembly line to the new owner.



So, after reading countless threads on this site, instead of beating my head against the wall and pulling out the remaining few hairs on my head, with this long preamble out of the way I thought I'd ask a few questions:



- Which manufacturers of high end motor homes are delivering models with the fewest initial defects and are designed to drive long periods with the confidence that it will make it to its destination and back home without needing on-the-road service?



- More importantly, when bugs or defects occur which manufacturers offer timely and painless methods of repairing these defects and treat the customer with dignity and respect? From visiting motor home dealerships it seems the staff are very helpful prior to the sale, but that level of support seems to whither away when it something goes wrong and the focus shifts from sales to service. Just from reading various threads it also seems that some manufacturers make you jump through hoops to get specific items repaired under warranty and the process seems drawn-out and tedious for the owner.



Yes, I realize that nothing's perfect in our world and since these models are assembled by hand, there will always be human error. It seems that an extra level of testing and quality control protocols is greatly needed and simple changes could lessen these issues and increase customer satisfaction, but so far, I'm not seeing the motor home industry doing too much to correct or change existing methods. But the difference in any industry is not how they handle things when they are good, it's how they handle things when things go wrong.



- With that said, is there a single manufacturer that stands above and takes the extra time to inspect each item and thoroughly test a new unit to ensure the chance of problems are minimized so that these motor homes can do what they are designed to do and that's simply to enjoy life while on the road or while camping?



- Would it be unheard of to volunteer to pay a few thousand dollars more to obtain this type of pre-testing service?



Yes, I know that some will say that there's not enough available personnel to accomplish this task, but let's look at the numbers for a moment:



If a manufacturer is completing one unit per day and it takes an additional three days over existing inspection methods to put it through its paces. Understanding there's a profit from each unit manufactured, if they set aside just a small percentage of that profit upfront to invest in additional "testing" personnel, wouldn't that decrease the number of potential future warranty claims and in turn, increase the long term profit and cultivate a new generation of loyal customers?



Sorry for the wordy post, but after reading countess posts I've found this to be a dilemma and I'm just trying to do my best to do my homework prior to placing an order for what I'm hoping will be a pleasurable experience for years to come.

If I were in your position, I would get myself out to Miami, OK and talk, in depth, to the Newell folks.

http://www.newellcoach.com/


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07