Gas VS Diesel

[StevenNSteph]

I've gotten a great chuckle out of some of the exaggerations and hyperbole in this thread. As an owner of 2 DP and 4 gasser I can say this. Best driving experience 10/10 = tag axle DP, 2nd Best 8/10 = DP, 3rd best 6/10 = Gasser.

Contrary to what some people have opined here pull hills in my full-timing gasser that is towing a car causes my Allison to downshift 1 maybe 2 gears so I am somewhere between 2500-3100 RPM's going up, there is no yelling at these RPM's and normal cruise at 61-62 MPH puts me around 2100 RPM which is just a nice hum under our feet. I also drive a stock W24 chassis, passing semi's is a one-hand on the steering wheel event as are most crosswinds. In fact I have been behind DP's who have been blown out of the lane with it giving us just a small nudge.

As far as the generator, NOT all gassers have them in the back, my current one does but my last one had it behind the drivers wheel. Personally I want the generator in the back and farthest away from our patio area. In my 18 years of RVing I have never had to run it at night (most campgrounds have quiet hours and when I'm boon-docking I don't have enough electrical draw to wear down my batteries.) However I have run it nearly all day to keep the coach cool and I like the fact that it is far away from the living area.

As far as gassing the beast goes, let's just admit that you can get auto-gas everywhere and this idea that I can't get my 39' motorhome and toad into gas-stations is silly. They bring double tanker trucks into them to fill up the tanks, in 18 years there have been about 3 stations that I couldn't get into, but the fact is I have much more options than when I drove a DP.

Another point is Gas mileage VS cost of gas, it's pretty much a wash. You get better mileage with a diesel but you pay .50-.70 a gallon more and this usually wipes out the mileage difference. I get 7.2 in a fully loaded full-timing 39' gasser towing a car, this is about as big and heavy as gassers come so mileage in them only goes up from here. Also maintenance in a diesel is MUCH more than in a gas rig. First off I do almost all of mine on the road, if there is any major stuff that needs to be done than almost any garage can work on the 8.1 chevy motor.

Finally some of you may question why I sold a DP and went full-timing in a gasser. The fact is the floor-plan sold us on the unit. It had everything that we wanted and when we did the math of moving once a week and driving about 6,000 miles a year, we found out that we would only be driving 1% of the total time in a year. Therefore the 99% of the time was much more important to us.

Bottom line is if you drive a little than consider a gasser, if you drive a lot or just want to drive a diesel and am willing to pay for it than get one.

Cheers

[Crasher]

Everything Steven said is true. I think the floor plan you want/need is the most important whether it's a gas or diesel. However, it has a hitch. If you ever intend to tow a heavy trailer with your toys like we do, you will want to look seriously at the diesel. We pull an enclosed trailer with a rock crawler, RZR, tools, welder, generator, etc that weighs 12,000#s. I think Steven will admit he would be hard pressed to pull it with any gas MH. I never thought I would be doing that, but here I am. Glad I have a MH with the capacity to do it safely.

[elang]

Hi we got a 1999 discovery with a 275 isb and towing a buick century on a dolly from AZ to FL average 11.5 mpg at 60mph. In the hills last Summer in Northern Cal down shift to 4th gears and climb the hill very easy, happy with mine, good luck, happy traveling.

[Moxy]

Originally Posted by StevenNSteph

I've gotten a great chuckle out of some of the exaggerations and hyperbole in this thread. As an owner of 2 DP and 4 gasser I can say this. Best driving experience 10/10 = tag axle DP, 2nd Best 8/10 = DP, 3rd best 6/10 = Gasser.

Contrary to what some people have opined here pull hills in my full-timing gasser that is towing a car causes my Allison to downshift 1 maybe 2 gears so I am somewhere between 2500-3100 RPM's going up, there is no yelling at these RPM's and normal cruise at 61-62 MPH puts me around 2100 RPM which is just a nice hum under our feet. I also drive a stock W24 chassis, passing semi's is a one-hand on the steering wheel event as are most crosswinds. In fact I have been behind DP's who have been blown out of the lane with it giving us just a small nudge.

As far as the generator, NOT all gassers have them in the back, my current one does but my last one had it behind the drivers wheel. Personally I want the generator in the back and farthest away from our patio area. In my 18 years of RVing I have never had to run it at night (most campgrounds have quiet hours and when I'm boon-docking I don't have enough electrical draw to wear down my batteries.) However I have run it nearly all day to keep the coach cool and I like the fact that it is far away from the living area.

As far as gassing the beast goes, let's just admit that you can get auto-gas everywhere and this idea that I can't get my 39' motorhome and toad into gas-stations is silly. They bring double tanker trucks into them to fill up the tanks, in 18 years there have been about 3 stations that I couldn't get into, but the fact is I have much more options than when I drove a DP.

Another point is Gas mileage VS cost of gas, it's pretty much a wash. You get better mileage with a diesel but you pay .50-.70 a gallon more and this usually wipes out the mileage difference. I get 7.2 in a fully loaded full-timing 39' gasser towing a car, this is about as big and heavy as gassers come so mileage in them only goes up from here. Also maintenance in a diesel is MUCH more than in a gas rig. First off I do almost all of mine on the road, if there is any major stuff that needs to be done than almost any garage can work on the 8.1 chevy motor.

Finally some of you may question why I sold a DP and went full-timing in a gasser. The fact is the floor-plan sold us on the unit. It had everything that we wanted and when we did the math of moving once a week and driving about 6,000 miles a year, we found out that we would only be driving 1% of the total time in a year. Therefore the 99% of the time was much more important to us.

Bottom line is if you drive a little than consider a gasser, if you drive a lot or just want to drive a diesel and am willing to pay for it than get one.

Cheers

While I'm sure you have some valid points, I feel I have to comments on some differences of opinion we have, we have to remember the OP was looking at a 99 HR diesel coach, $20-30K, that is not a price point where the OP is likely to be able to get a coach even close to yours, so we should compare diesel coach's and gas coaches at that price point, so your comparisons although skewed slightly towards your latest coach imho and not quite accurate or relevant.

Your coach likely powered by 8.1 and a smaller Allison transmission, it does not have the towing ability of a similar sized older diesel, your engines longevity is no where near the longevity any diesel by a long shot, which why diesel have a higher value, so resale is a consideration. I personally would not consider a large gas coach with 100000 miles on it period, Same applies to diesel generators, they are just getting broke in when a gas genny will be ready to rebuilt, but that's why the are much more expensive and as far as location, Im not sure I can hear mine running from anywhere under the canopy and it sips fuel, oil change, fuel and oil filters are not an issue.

Now its been a month since I have been south but I didn't see fuel price differences even close to what you have eluded to in your post so I feel that is outright misleading, same goes for the comment that the mileage is a wash. Your maintenance comment is way off as well, The OP is looking at a 5.9 cummins, although oil change may be slightly more, you will do two or more oil changes in the same period on your gas engine, transmission maintenance is a once in 100,000 mile deal,

Now your gas coach is big for a gas engine, but I've passed to many big gassers to agree that running hills towing anything behind a gasser can hold a candle to a diesel, and mine is no hot rod by any means, but he's looking at a 5.9 so as I have had one of them, it will be slightly slower but he will still pass most trucks on the hills, and get well over 10 mpg doing it, something I cant see any gas coach getting even close to. I know my gas coach didn't and it was smaller and lighter.

We put slightly more mileage on every year than you do but in much less time so the question for me is a no brainer, if I were in your position driving 500 miles a month I may consider a gas coach, but I cant get a tag, 10K towing aqua hot or anything over 40 feet with out a diesel in my snack bracket so I'm stuck with diesel.

So well I'm sure your comments are well intentioned, they are not quite accurate as you have opined there are some inaccuracy's and comments
that have exaggerated the qualities of some coaches and mislead regarding the abilities of others the OP needs to have an accurate picture from several points of view and consider all of the factors relevant to the differences between gas and diesel coaches.

Cheers

Moxy

[nbargolf]

Originally Posted by Jim042

Thanks for that input. I was evaluating the cost of 4k mile trips based on wrong information. Maybe I will look at the gas rigs again.

FYI our 34 ft v10 gasser got 6-6.5 mpg towing, our now DP gets 8-8.5 towing the same car. So don't plan on a gasser getting better MPG.

[nbargolf]

" I also drive a stock W24 chassis, passing semi's is a one-hand on the steering wheel event as are most crosswinds. In fact I have been behind DP's who have been blown out of the lane with it giving us just a small nudge."
Man you had a one of a kind gasser. our 34ft gasser was just the opposite, as most folks I have talked to, it was blown all over the road in wind or 18 wheelers. The DP is rock solid in wind and big rigs don't know they're there.

[StevenNSteph]

Originally Posted by Moxy

While I'm sure you have some valid points, I feel I have to comments on some differences of opinion we have, we have to remember the OP was looking at a 99 HR diesel coach, $20-30K,

My comments were NOT to the OP, they were responses to some of the other commentators here that were making vast generalizations that were for the most part inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Moxy

I personally would not consider a large gas coach with 100000 miles on it period,

I personally wouldn't consider ANY coach with that many miles on it. The wear and tear on the box by that time will be horrendous, that’s why talk about longevity of motors is a non-issue to me. I really don’t want to buy a used DP with 500,000 miles on it. Thanks, but no thanks.

Originally Posted by Moxy

Now its been a month since I have been south but I didn't see fuel price differences even close to what you have eluded to in your post so I feel that is outright misleading,

All you need to do is look up the prices on the internet to see that my comment is 100% factual. Take a look:

http://www.pilotflyingj.com/fuel-prices?per_page=100

You'll be hard pressed to find places where there is less than a .50 difference but there are quite a few places where the cost of diesel is .60 -.70 more a gallon and several states where it's .90 a gallon more.

Originally Posted by Moxy

same goes for the comment that the mileage is a wash.

Using an apples to apples fuel price comparison my shorter Newmar DP cost .47 a mile in fuel over the last 6,000 miles it was driven. My current gasser cost .48 a mile over the last 6,000 miles. To me .47 VS .48 is a wash.

Originally Posted by Moxy

Your maintenance comment is way off as well, The OP is looking at a 5.9 cummins, although oil change may be slightly more, you will do two or more oil changes in the same period on your gas engine,

Not true, most diesels tell you to change the oil X miles or ONCE a year/ whatever comes first. I change mine about once a year on a gasser and I changed mine once a year on the DP. Besides just the cost of my oil filter on the DP would pay for two oil changes on my gasser.

But that is just talking about oil changes, the fact is there is more maintenance on a DP because they are more complex machines. So not only are you doing more all of the parts cost much more. If you have never run the numbers or have never owned a gas coach than please don’t opine that it isn’t. But if you have owned both and kept your records you KNOW that DP are just more costly to maintain, there is not getting around that fact.


I can break it all down for you or you can read about it here on a blog of a fellow RVer who has owned both a gasser and DP and currently owns a DP that he loves, but he makes no bones about it when he says “In total, the diesel chassis costs way more to maintain than the gas chassis.”

http://rsanityrvtravels.blogspot.com/2010/07/gas-vs-diesel-our-view.html

Originally Posted by Moxy

Now your gas coach is big for a gas engine, but I've passed to many big gassers to agree that running hills towing anything behind a gasser can hold a candle to a diesel,

Hmmmm, you didn’t read what I said, I said I can pull hills without my RPMS shooting up into the 4,000 range and having it so loud that I can’t talk in the cab. I NEVER said that it would blow by diesels because that simply is not the case.

Originally Posted by Moxy

We put slightly more mileage on every year than you do but in much less time so the question for me is a no brainer, if I were in your position driving 500 miles a month I may consider a gas coach, but I cant get a tag, 10K towing aqua hot or anything over 40 feet with out a diesel in my snack bracket so I'm stuck with diesel.

I agree with you, if you took the time to look at some of my other postings I have told other RVer that when I was a weekend warrior, hauling heavy trailers all over the mountainous west I had a DP. I liked the ability to hammer it and cruise over the 10,000’+ mountain passes as quickly as possible because back then time was of the essence.

I have always preached that you have to buy the RV that is right for YOUR “mission”. Diesels make great sense for certain missions and in many cases are the ONLY choice that you have. However too many people come up with stories about gas coaches going up hills with snails and tortoises passing them by while the engine is screaming like a banshee. Or that if a semi passes them or a small crosswind strikes them they get blown off the side of the road unless you put thousands of dollars into aftermarket devices to allow you to drive them safely. None of this is true and deep down I think we all know this but many people just feel the need to either exaggerate greatly or just make up wholesale inaccuracies.

I’ve never seen the need to bash gassers, even when I had a Monaco Dynasty I always felt we were all RV brethren, enjoying a good life and good times together.

I’ll end with the words of the great humanitarian Rodney King “Can’t we all get along?”

Cheers

[Steve Ownby]

Guys,

This thread is in danger of getting seriously "wrapped around the axle". Most Gas vs Diesel conversations take these turns and are not particularly productive. Both power trains have their strengths and weaknesses. Most motorhomers will have particular wants and needs that will make the power train decision for them. If you happen to fall in an area with an overlap of power train type then you just have to study the pros and cons of those particular coaches and make an informed decision.

One size does not fit all.

Good luck to the OP and I hope this long running discussion has been a help.

[Chuck 1935]

The fun part in reading all these posts on all different threads is that there is one constant truth which I will now reveal .........
Up is Down, Black is White and the Truth is a Lie.

[StevenNSteph]

Originally Posted by nbargolf

Man you had a one of a kind gasser. our 34ft gasser was just the opposite, as most folks I have talked to, it was blown all over the road in wind or 18 wheelers. The DP is rock solid in wind and big rigs don't know they're there.

I have driven a couple of gassers that were less than desirable, but I also drove a DP from Los Angeles to Las Vegas that tried to kill me. It was the most frightening coach I have ever driven, so there are bad chassis matted to wrong size tires and suspension systems. These combos are engineering screw-ups that simply don't work very well but the engine isn't the determining factor of the ride quality, the chassis, suspension components and tires are.

I have to ask with the greatest deference, if the coach was as bad as you say, than why did you buy it in the first place?

[UFO Pilot]

I had to "drive" my W24 chassis Coach all the time. The R26 I have now can be driven with one hand and doesn't get moved around except for very high cross winds. The only chassis upgrade I have done is Koni shocks.

[csrrsr]

Originally Posted by Jim042

Hi, new member. I am researching gas vs diesel, have my eye on a 37' Holiday Rambler Endeavor with a Cummins ISB Turbo Diesel Power (275 Horse Power). I have no experience with diesel, but have owned 3 different class A gas rigs.
Questions: is 275 HP enough? what MPG is normal? Its a 99 with 68k miles. Thanks, Jim.

Whew....back to the OP. We were in your position and test drove the GeorgeTown by Forest River gasser (V-10). They were nice, but the dealer was wanting $92,000 (a 22% mark down) and with tax and license we were at $100,000 out the door. But, we weren't sure we were ready to spend that kind of money. We had never owned a MH before. We looked at 50 MH's and test drove a few. The older gassers were much less....much less than new ones and that bothered me. When we test drove the one we bought.....well what a difference in power, quietness, and ride. It had 77,400 miles on it and had all owner records. The price was a little over half of the new gasser ($58,000). The layout was perfect for us although we did upgrade TV's etc. We pull a boat and Jeep and don't know they are back there. DP worked for us. We spend about $500/year on maintenance, which to us is money well spent for the quality we get from the DP. I get between 8-11 mpg. Don't know what a gasser would get. We have owned all diesel rigs for the last 14 years (Dodge truck & Jeep Liberty). Diesel prices for us just goes with the territory and we've never thought of it as a budget buster. Good Luck...P.S a good test drive will weight much more for you than all our comments.

[Moxy]

Originally Posted by StevenNSteph

My comments were NOT to the OP, they were responses to some of the other commentators here that were making vast generalizations that were for the most part inaccurate.

Oh my mistake I was under the impression you were trying to help and advise the OP


I personally wouldn't consider ANY coach with that many miles on it. The wear and tear on the box by that time will be horrendous, that’s why talk about longevity of motors is a non-issue to me. I really don’t want to buy a used DP with 500,000 miles on it. Thanks, but no thanks.

Opinions are like .... well you know what they say, I dare say my box will still be rocking and rolling long after 100000 miles,


All you need to do is look up the prices on the internet to see that my comment is 100% factual. Take a look:

http://www.pilotflyingj.com/fuel-prices?per_page=100

You'll be hard pressed to find places where there is less than a .50 difference but there are quite a few places where the cost of diesel is .60 -.70 more a gallon and several states where it's .90 a gallon more.




Using an apples to apples fuel price comparison my shorter Newmar DP cost .47 a mile in fuel over the last 6,000 miles it was driven. My current gasser cost .48 a mile over the last 6,000 miles. To me .47 VS .48 is a wash.

what can I say that is your experience, not mine.

Not true, most diesels tell you to change the oil X miles or ONCE a year/ whatever comes first. I change mine about once a year on a gasser and I changed mine once a year on the DP. Besides just the cost of my oil filter on the DP would pay for two oil changes on my gasser.

But that is just talking about oil changes, the fact is there is more maintenance on a DP because they are more complex machines. So not only are you doing more all of the parts cost much more. If you have never run the numbers or have never owned a gas coach than please don’t opine that it isn’t. But if you have owned both and kept your records you KNOW that DP are just more costly to maintain, there is not getting around that fact.

as have I, several of both, so I have a pretty good idea of what I speak, but again, the OP was talking about a 5.9 diesel cummins, slightly more complicated that the 5.9 in a million or more dodge pick ups, my diesel will have 20K on it when the oil gets changed, if ya did that kind of mileage on a BB gasser, she wont last long. and that is a fact.

I can break it all down for you or you can read about it here on a blog of a fellow RVer who has owned both a gasser and DP and currently owns a DP that he loves, but he makes no bones about it when he says “In total, the diesel chassis costs way more to maintain than the gas chassis.”

http://rsanityrvtravels.blogspot.com/2010/07/gas-vs-diesel-our-view.html


again, you confuse my comments regarding the OP's interest and your comments about every other rig out there. I'm basing my comments on my experience, no one elses


Hmmmm, you didn’t read what I said, I said I can pull hills without my RPMS shooting up into the 4,000 range and having it so loud that I can’t talk in the cab. I NEVER said that it would blow by diesels because that simply is not the case.

im no speed demon but generally speaking it does appear that the majority of coaches heading up big hills with 4 ways on are gassers, just stating a fact, don't often see diesel with four ways on.

I agree with you, if you took the time to look at some of my other postings I have told other RVer that when I was a weekend warrior, hauling heavy trailers all over the mountainous west I had a DP. I liked the ability to hammer it and cruise over the 10,000’+ mountain passes as quickly as possible because back then time was of the essence.

really wasn't going to read your other posts,

I have always preached that you have to buy the RV that is right for YOUR “mission”. Diesels make great sense for certain missions and in many cases are the ONLY choice that you have. However too many people come up with stories about gas coaches going up hills with snails and tortoises passing them by while the engine is screaming like a banshee. Or that if a semi passes them or a small crosswind strikes them they get blown off the side of the road unless you put thousands of dollars into aftermarket devices to allow you to drive them safely. None of this is true and deep down I think we all know this but many people just feel the need to either exaggerate greatly or just make up wholesale inaccuracies.

not bashing gassers and don't mean to but diesels they are not maintenance black holes, they are not oil guzzling behemoths either, generally they are heavy powerfull very stable platforms specifically designed for Motor Coach use, most gas coaches have far more restrictive pollutions controls, ask far more of their engines and transmissions and operate at the upper limits of their ability, are not generally designed to have these "boxes" on them and are just as complicated as any diesel coach going down the road, every tried to adjust fuel injection or figure out a check engine light, gassers are not our old carbureted 350's.

I’ve never seen the need to bash gassers, even when I had a Monaco Dynasty I always felt we were all RV brethren, enjoying a good life and good times together.

I'm not bashing gassers or you, just stating what I know and just trying to help OP understand what's out there and why he does not need to be afraid of a diesel coach.

I’ll end with the words of the great humanitarian Rodney King “Can’t we all get along?”

good question, I see nothing wrong with a spirited debate and don't take anything personal, if we talk more there would be far fewer problems in this world and I am always willing to learn.

Cheers

Cheers to you as well,

[UFO Pilot]

Originally Posted by Moxy

Now its been a month since I have been south but I didn't see fuel price differences even close to what you have eluded to in your post so I feel that is outright misleading

FYI

I paid $3.39 for gas this morning, diesel was $4.09.