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Old 02-27-2020, 06:53 AM   #1
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Gas vs Diesel

This is NOT a discussion to get opinions, but a reflection on a discussion with my slip neighbor.

He had a '05 Tiffin Bus and I would frequently talk to him about maintenance issues. I was surprised yesterday when I saw a gasser in his slip, specifically a Newmar Bay Star 31 ft. I thought he had moved, but about 30 minutes later he drove up and I asked him about the new MH. He said his wife didn't like driving the bigger Tiffin and she insisted they get a smaller MH. So I asked him how he likes it. His reply, he hates it and told his wife he won't drive it. He said the gasser wanders all over the road and he gets tired driving it quickly.

He said he loved his Tiffin Bus with IFS and air suspension. I have never driven any other MH except mine which also has IFS and air suspension. I told him mine drives like a big Cadillac and I thought they all drive like mine.
He said his Tiffin drives like a Cadillac too and said again he won't drive his gasser more than a few miles. Just wondering if somethings wrong with his suspension or steering, he claims no.

Happy wife happy life....I guess.
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:58 AM   #2
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Kinda hard to be at the top then go down.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:43 AM   #3
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does he have the steering stabilizer? if not it helps alot for handling the banks power system works to make up for the low end torq.

i also found that the koni shocks are stiffer then the stock bilstein that were on my w24 chassie, but i also added an extra leaf to the spring packs in the rear for the trailer i haul.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:36 AM   #4
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You would think that he would know that moving down to a gas MH would most likely involve investing in some after market modifications to improve handling and ride. In his shoes, perhaps he should have insisted on staying with a small DP (are there any that are less than 34'?) or look at other alternatives i.e. super C.
Sounds as though he and the DW need to figure out how to resolve their differences.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:10 AM   #5
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He might benefit from taking it to a qualified alignment shop that specializes in larger vehicles. My first three coaches were gassers and they drove fine, especially the '98 Pace Arrow Vision with a tag axle. The last five have been DP's and they all drove fine especially the Bus we have now with IFS and a Tag. A proper alignment along with the correct tire pressures can make a huge difference in handling for any MH.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:18 AM   #6
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I don’t know what chassis you have, but you might consider the ‘cheap handling fix’. It’s a huge thread on here.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/chea...fix-72335.html

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Old 02-27-2020, 09:29 AM   #7
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Tell the wife to drive it.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
This is NOT a discussion to get opinions, but a reflection on a discussion with my slip neighbor.

He had a '05 Tiffin Bus and I would frequently talk to him about maintenance issues. I was surprised yesterday when I saw a gasser in his slip, specifically a Newmar Bay Star 31 ft. I thought he had moved, but about 30 minutes later he drove up and I asked him about the new MH. He said his wife didn't like driving the bigger Tiffin and she insisted they get a smaller MH. So I asked him how he likes it. His reply, he hates it and told his wife he won't drive it. He said the gasser wanders all over the road and he gets tired driving it quickly.

He said he loved his Tiffin Bus with IFS and air suspension. I have never driven any other MH except mine which also has IFS and air suspension. I told him mine drives like a big Cadillac and I thought they all drive like mine.
He said his Tiffin drives like a Cadillac too and said again he won't drive his gasser more than a few miles. Just wondering if somethings wrong with his suspension or steering, he claims no.

Happy wife happy life....I guess.


Find this hard to believe as our stock 2013 Tiffin 36 LA drives just fine. In fact I finally got a ride in friends 2019 Tiffin IH and felt road bumps just as noticable. I honestly did not feel any difference on smooth roads. Engine noise is not an issue other than steep grades. Iím sure the extra power would be noticable but for 90% of the driving gasser is fine and one heck of a lot cheaper to maintain. I am not a speed freak and 62 mph is fine with me. I see no need to be rambling down the interstate at 75 mph.
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Old 02-27-2020, 04:09 PM   #9
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Nothing is wrong with your friend's comparison. They are 2 different beasts. Going from what was, probably, 45ft long with multiple features for a comfortable drive to something WAY shorter/lighter with little/no features for a comfortable drive is going to be an adjustment.

Granted, the following opinion of mine does not reflect comparing a new apple to a new orange. More like an old apple to a new orange.

Our prior coach was a 2006 Bounder on the Ford F53 chassis. Despite upgrades/add on's, it still drove like a bread truck. Every crack in the pavement was keenly felt, expansion joints jolted us, pot holes could jar your fillings out. I drove it so I have first hand experience on how it handled. After about 2 hours, I needed a break & my shoulders were tired from wrangling the steering wheel....& yes, we kept tires properly inflated & had regular alignments. At one point, we discussed adding the LiquidSprings, but decided to put that money into a coach with newer technology. IMO, you can't get the same ride from the F53 chassis that you can from a FL, Spartan, PG or other such diesel chassis with air bags.

No amount of upgrades to the suspension we did on that gasser changed the fact it in NO WAY POSSIBLE could ever compete to the smooth riding/handling we currently have with our 2018 Phaeton, which weighs over twice as much as that Bounder, a beefier chassis, air bags & IFS (all of which make a HUGE difference). I've driven this Phaeton as well & the time just flies. I've gone over 3 hours, with no break, & felt no shoulder fatigue at all. I actually could've gone longer, but my bladder needed the break after drinking the BIG GULP I keep in the cupholder.

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Old 02-27-2020, 06:45 PM   #10
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Is the Bay Star new or just new to him? If the latter, what year is the chassis?

There are a number of things that can be done to the F53 to make it ride better but wandering all over the road usually is easy to fix. The first place to start is, as someone noted, to get a good front end alignment done from someone experienced on the F53 chassis. This is a good place to start looking:

https://fordcommercialvehiclecenter.com/

I used Davenport, IA and set an Advanced Filter to Class A Motorhomes.

Click on More Information for a dealer and scroll all the way to the bottom. Dealership Service Bay Dimensions will help narrow down who may be able to perform an alignment.

Junge Center Point in Center Point, IA can handle a length up to 50' and up to 48,000 pounds.

HTH,

Ray
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Old 02-28-2020, 05:12 AM   #11
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Thanks guys, I will pass along the info next time I see him. He traded his 40ft '05 Tiffin Bus for the 31 ft '18 Bay Star.

Since I have never driven a gasser I can't quite relate to his issues, but they do seem to be excessive.

I can say in my 35,000 miles of driving my DP, it drives like a dream, just a big ole Cadillac with more acceleration than should be allowed.
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Old 02-28-2020, 06:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
Thanks guys, I will pass along the info next time I see him. He traded his 40ft '05 Tiffin Bus for the 31 ft '18 Bay Star.

Since I have never driven a gasser I can't quite relate to his issues, but they do seem to be excessive.

I can say in my 35,000 miles of driving my DP, it drives like a dream, just a big ole Cadillac with more acceleration than should be allowed.

My opinion, having just gone the other way after about 40K miles in the Southwind and the Winnie combined...


In 1976, truck chassis did wander a bit, but things improved dramatically between then and 1996 for the Winnie.



The Winnie didn't wander, exactly, but it's not nearly as planted as the Tiffin. There are several reasons for this. Weight is one, but probably the biggest reason is that the Tiffin is bump steered (see below), and the Winnie is not. No amount of work on the Winnie would fully address this without making new suspension parts to change the geometry. Tiffin even had this design point in their marketing material for our rig.



Bump steering is actually sort of the opposite of what it sounds like it should mean. A vehicle that has been bump steered has been engineered so that up/down front wheel deflection does *not* cause a steering angle change. So, when you go over a bump, you continue to go in the direction you were going without making a steering correction. Also, when the coach tilts to the side, which causes one front wheel to go up and the other down, you keep going straight. Road camber changes and cross-winds both cause that sort of deflection.



The combination of a less-well-engineered front end and lower weight made our Winnie a handful sometimes. You are constantly correcting the steering to stay on course as the road tilts, especially in strong gusty cross-winds, and to a lesser extent when being passed by something else. This is definitely tiring, and though accustomed to it, I'd be ready to kick back and have a beer by the time we got anywhere that was several hours away from home! I've sometimes gotten off the highway in strong gusty cross-winds because I was turning the wheel nearly half a turn and back to stay in my lane. Scary!


That said, our gassers weren't really that bad, usually, even if they were sometimes a handful. But the 100-mile trip home in the Tiffin was a lot more relaxing than the trip to the dealer with the Winnie, even though the Tiffin and its wheelbase are both 6' longer, and the coach is still new to me.
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Old 02-28-2020, 06:53 AM   #13
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I've had DP motorhomes and I've had gas motorhomes. I currently have a 2019 Newmar Canyon Star. Is a DP ride more comfortable and stable, absolutely. Is a gas ride unacceptable. Of course not.

I'll never have another DP for a number of reasons. The lesser ride and stability of a gas chassis is a small sacrifice to avoid all the other problems associated with owning a DP.

But then, I'm a believer in the 222 rule of motorhome driving. Never more than 200 miles, always park by 2pm and always stay at least 2 nights when you do stop. Makes travel and life much more enjoyable.
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Old 02-28-2020, 06:54 AM   #14
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I do not understand why a steering stabilizer seems to help gas rigs more than DPs... based on many threads I’ve read. Maybe all it does is make it harder to oversteer the rig which on a shorter wheelbase is a bigger improvement.
I removed the Safe-T-+ from the new to me 08 Navigator after 4K miles as it made driving it noticeably tiring... unlike the 85K miles without one on the same chassis.
I decided to make it adjustable on the fly here, if interested: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/mak...le-451209.html
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