Community Forums

lenp · 07-26-2013, 09:31 PM

I am joining a little late here to but for what it is worth............
On my coach the trombetta will click back and forth for about 5 minutes EVERY time I shut down the generator after running for 30-45 minutes. Might even do it when disconnecting shore power but I never noticed.

I initially worried about it but after reading up on the BIRD operation I suspect it it simply the surface charge of the batteries (both chassis & house) slowly dropping back to 12.6 after being charged. If both house and chassis batteries settled back to 12.6 at and equal rate I suspect the trombetta would not keep switching but with two different kinds of batteries (set of start batteries and a set of deep cycle batteries) and different load conditions for each bank, the 'settle' rate is going to be different.

I suspect what is happening (in my case) is the house battery bank settles faster (parasitic loads) and the BIRD sees a chassis battery voltage higher than the house so it changes to try to bring up the house batteries, then both house and chassis batteries equalize and the BIRD switches to it's previous state, then once again the house batteries drop below the chassis batteries and the BIRD once again switches the trombetta. This continues until the batteries (house and Chassis) are equal (surface charge dissipated) and voltage around 12.6.

I am certainly NOT an expert on how the BIRD operates but I "think" I have it right.

Lenp

"007" · 07-26-2013, 09:40 PM

Welcome to irv2.
Here is information on BIRD System & battery system and here is for reference 12v wiring systems in a Newmar coach.

Here is info on just about every control in your coach. Double click on item it will enlarge and also go to a supplier.

The short answer is your Bird system maintains all your battery systems when your coach has shore power the Bird will charge your house batteries, when they are fully charged the Bird will charge your chassis batteries.

When your driving the engine alternator will charge your coach batteries first than will charge your house batteries, just the opposite operation.
I have a ten year old chassis battery never a false start or dead battery, same for the house batteries.

If its possible to keep coach plugged in you will not have any battery problems just check your water levels or if AGM's as mine you will be happy no painting of the battery trays.

There is more info in the QT LINKS in my signature so plenty of help if you need a answer.

Turbo you need to visit the Newmar forum.

RayHarkness · 08-30-2013, 10:50 AM

We have a similar setup, with Intellitec and 200amp relay. All seems to be well, but that solenoid is constantly HOT..very warm to touch. It is connecting the batteries. I have replaced the Intellitec twice, found one problem that the ignition wire into the Intellitec box was CONSTANTLY live, not working of ignition when turned on. Has anybody noticed heat in the RELAY. I had to replace that the solenoid once, White Rogers 200amp.

I am curious if that relay is constantly warm, when pluged into showepower? thoughts..new to this forum. soooooooooooooooooo...

Old Bounder · 08-30-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeoclown

We have a similar setup, with Intellitec and 200amp relay. All seems to be well, but that solenoid is constantly HOT..very warm to touch. It is connecting the batteries. I have replaced the Intellitec twice, found one problem that the ignition wire into the Intellitec box was CONSTANTLY live, not working of ignition when turned on. Has anybody noticed heat in the RELAY. I had to replace that the solenoid once, White Rogers 200amp.

I am curious if that relay is constantly warm, when pluged into showepower? thoughts..new to this forum. soooooooooooooooooo...

Yes, the relay (solenoid) will be held closed when on shore power, and will be "warm to the touch". This is normal. Depending on where it is mounted, it may NOT feel as warm as it does when it's being held closed by the engine alternator charging voltage due to radiated heat from the engine and/or road.

YC1 · 08-30-2013, 12:14 PM

Fantastic and accurate answers as usual. I have replaced and or rebuilt my relay three times. There are pictures available of them taken apart on this forum and about 100 pages of information on BIRD systems. They can get very hot to the touch so be careful.

("He said that if house batteries reached a certain point it would fire up the genny automatically")
Just wanted to address this comment and since you got it from the factory it may be accurate. On my RV I have to program my generator to autostart. Yours may be programmed from the factory.

Sundancer268 · 08-30-2013, 06:42 PM

Reading the Intellitec information on my BIRD Diesel-2 on my coach the Generator terminal is to prevent the relay closing the isolator relay to the chassis batteries while the generator is running to prevent overloading the converter or Generator.

This is from the Intellitec BIRD Diesel-2 Manual

Generator Operation
The BIRD operates in conjunction with a continuous duty solenoid to provide the isolator/battery charging
functions of a motor home. It senses voltage on the coach and chassis batteries. If the voltage on either one is
above 13.3 volts, indicating the battery is being charged, it closes the isolator relay, paralleling the batteries,
charging both. It operates in two directions, charging the batteries from the engine alternator and charging the
batteries from the converter. These functions are similar but operate at different thresholds.
When the ignition switch is turned on and the engine is running, the system senses the level of voltage on the
chassis 12 volt system. When this voltage goes 13.3 volts for approximately 2 ½ minutes, as happens
when the engine is running normally (normal alternator output voltage of a cold engine is approximately 14.4
volts), it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the battery. This delay allows a cold
engine an opportunity to start and warm up before having the heavy load of a discharged coach battery placed
on it.
If the voltage should fall 12 volts for more than about one minute, the relay will drop out to feed all the
alternators available output to the chassis battery to keep the engine running. This might happen when the
alternator is not able to supply sufficient current to all of the loads and charge the coach battery at the same
time. When the chassis voltage goes 13.3 volts again, the relay will again close in about one minute to
retry to charge the battery. The resultant flickering of lights would alert the driver of the system overload.
When the coach is plugged into shore power and the ignition is off, the unit senses the voltage on the coach
batteries. When this voltage goes 13.3 volts for approximately 2 ½ minutes, as happens when the
converter isn't heavily loaded, it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the battery.
If the voltage should fall 12.8 volts for more than about one minute, the relay will drop out to prevent the
coach loads from discharging the chassis battery. This might happen when the converter is heavily loaded by
coach loads. When the coach battery voltage goes 13.3 volts again, the relay will again close in about
one minute to retry to charge the battery.
When the generator is operating, a 12 volt signal is applied to the generator input. This inhibits the isolator from
operating. This is to prevent the generator/converter combination from supplying power to the chassis
functions which might over-load the converter or the generator circuit breaker.

Sundancer268 · 08-30-2013, 06:45 PM

The Bird Manual can be downloaded from the following WEB Site.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...51495398,d.aWc

RayHarkness · 08-31-2013, 05:19 AM

whoa..this is a great site. Glad I found it. I have replaced the Intellitec twice, as heat is not its friend. My Intellitec Isolate is in the front of the coach, (Diesel PUsher) there is a Relay wire (on mine yellow) to the back, and it closes (which seems opposite) the Solenoid and delivers power between House and Chassis batteries. I have it figured out now. Also, what I did find, was that the ignition wire (Purple) on my coach, was LIVE full time. It did not run off the Ignition switch sides, live only when engine was running. I was advised to check for that which can cause problems. Now, I am trying to find an easy way to run a "switched ignition" line to that Ignition side of the Intellitac

So, thats the latest on this one. Some really good posts here thanks for all the sharing. What we seem to find, is that many RV dealers don't maintain consistency in Techs on hand, that have the hands on experience. I did find one OLDER guy that new the systems right off the top of his head and gave some other advice. I have his number now for sure.!!! Good luck all.

wa8yxm · 08-31-2013, 06:30 AM

I see three devices and some terminal blocks there
Two large "Cans" are your battery disconnect solenoids, Main and House or.. House disconnect and isolator relay

The black box (lower left) is an INtelletec BIRD. (Bi Directional Isolator Delay) controller.

The problem (This is a guess) is a bad chassis battery or marginal house batteries.

CLICK the batteries are joined by the BIRD.. Since the converter is now in an overload state it limits it's output and as the voltage drops CLICK the bird drops out.. The voltage now rises and CLICK the batteries re-join.

Now, which battery is bad? (house/chassis) I do not know.. but there is one other possibility.

IF the chassis (And in this case it must be the chassis) battery is seriously "Hungry" then you will get a few cycles till it charges up enough to hang in there and not click any more. Does not mean its bad.. Only that it's hungry.