High end 90's Coaches- Thoughts and Questions

[hertfordnc]

The dream is to live on the road in comfort for a few years in retirement.

A lot of very nice coaches from the 90s are now 90% depreciated. Newell, Wanderlodge, Monaco, Vogue, and a few custom Prevosts that never served as busses. All can be had for under $40K (many closer to $20K)

The lifestyle would be no permanent address and long loops around North America exploring and researching the place we plan to die. (we have no attachment to our current home)

I've owned 50 cars, including a few diesels. The current RV is a 2006 Sprinter i converted. So nothing about owning a 30 year coach scares me. But I will be 68 when this adventure starts so I plan to avoid the heavy lifting.



Which ones do you think might be a better bargain and undervalued? It seems like Wanderlodge tends to be priced higher but I don't think it's any better than the competition. I think it's just more well known and it has the rugged bus look.

Are there others in that category that don't get the recognition?

Of the three power plants- Detroit, Cummins, Cat. which is the easiest for DIY maintenance ? And which is the best for getting service on the road?

The perfect coach is 35 feet or less, with no slides, a large bath and functional kitchen, and maybe some good passenger seating for hauling rental children.

[wolfe10]

Add Foretravel to your short list of high end 1990's DP's


With few exceptions (like the Detroit Diesel 8.2 liter V8) any of those engine brands will outlast the coach with proper maintenance.

[Old Scout]

Sounds on the surface like a wonderful dream but in reality, you are buying a 30+ year old coach with a lot of features that in their day were impressive. Now they are just outdated. Many resorts and campgrounds have age restrictions and more and more repair facilities wont work on the older vehicles. Like houses and cars of this vintage, anything plastic or rubber will be aged out. There might be 1 in a 100, that have been maintained in like new condition, most haven't. If its a dream, go for it--just go in with your eyes wide open.

[SafariBen]

There are some out there depreciated 99+%, maybe you're better off avoiding those with your plans. Even still, regarding brand, what difference, at this point, does it make? what's happened in the 30 years since it left the factory makes more difference than Monaco vs Newell. The individual coach you find and it's individual history makes more difference than the make and model differences from one coach to another.


I like the mechanical 8.3 up to 98, the only electronics on the engine is the fuel solenoid, which can easily be removed or wired on in an emergency. The Allison computer can give trouble, but the fix is reasonable enough if you have time to send it off and wait. A lot of people love the DD 60 series. If anybody ever used a 40 series, that's a rebranded DT466, an excellent mechanical motor.



I bought one of those 99% depreciated, so I took hydraulic brakes and torsion suspension because I wanted the 8.3, and some other factors in the one I found. I'd say conventional wisdom is air brakes are far simpler to get serviced if you have problems in the middle of nowhere. But then the 8.3 liked to brake the timing case with an air compressor, so I don't have that to worry about.

[OldBaldFat]

Engines, chassis - may be great.

However, with even the best builder - the house part of the coach was not built with a 25 to 30 year life expectancy.

Even the best stick-built home will need some major replacements in that length of time. Parts which will need replacement include the air conditioner(s), the fridge, the stove, the furnace, water heater, etc. Maybe they have been replaced. Be certain to ask.

A fridge that old is almost certainly a small propane powered one. Check the other components. Any original, or 15 year old components will not have the modern level of convenience we've all grown to expect.

A 25-year-old couch may or may not need new upholstery, or replacement depending on how much the coach has been used.

What about the bed? I doubt any that old have the original mattress.

Also, the electrical wiring, panel, circuit breakers.

Now, if you are looking for a project to work on for a few years and have deep pockets - you can come up with an amazing motorhome. You would be starting with a great foundation.

Turnkey and go. I doubt you can find one that old for that price level in that good condition.

But don't let my warning stop you. Just look with a skeptical eye, just as you would buying an older home.

[d23haynes57]

These older coaches are 90% depreciated because they are really 90% consumed from age, maybe miles, definitely lack of use and care, and obsolete in so many ways. The first part of your desire is that you want vintage for the looks and feel, and showing it is more important than using it. All of the high-end ones can have a single repair cost more than you are looking to spend. Actually, most any older coach can. Roadside repairs of $20K for a radiator or $40K for an engine are common. In that price range and age, you are really making just the down payment. Looking at 35 feet eliminates most all of the good stuff. Better bets would include Foretravel, u series early Nimbus, Country Coach. A few others. Most others the shorties were more budget based.

The drivelines and suspensions are the easy parts. The bodies and structures take a beating and are often the reason for coach retirement.
Body integrity is why the real bus conversions cost what they do and hold their value. For the non-bus, next step down is Foretravel Country Coach, American Eagle or other high end, Some Monaco and Beaver. Alpine also made some nice stuff.

Ultimately, you need to do some shopping, look around, go to vintage and brand loyal RV gatherings and look for yourself. Fly around and take test drives. Long test drives. Get really familiar with the systems for any coach you would consider. Some Prevost's have Electrical and HVAC systems that rival some mansions. True over the road heat and AC for whole coach along with dual alternators, 24-volt electricals, 20kw generator needing 80-to-100-amp connections, etc. Front tires alone a $4k event. Bluebird M380 is more a conventional RV. You need to find something you will fall in love with. Emotion will get you past the cost conscious part.

[andy29847]

I think you price range does not fit you desire for a "high" end coach. I built a search in RVtrader to look for coaches like you described. Forty thousand won't buy one of these in good condition.




Early 2000's mid-class motorhomes would be more affordable and coaches to choose from would be larger too.

[jacwjames]

I's suggest start looking at as many of the coaches similar to what you may want. Keep in mind what you like and don't like. You will slowly get a sense of the good, bad, and ugly. Keep track of the asking price of the different coaches.



I think it will take time and luck to find the type of coach you describe. But you may get lucky.




Some of the things I think are important are engine access for maintenance.

[hertfordnc]

Originally Posted by andy29847

I think you price range does not fit you desire for a "high" end coach. I built a search in RVtrader to look for coaches like you described. Forty thousand won't buy one of these in good condition.
.

Maybe. But RV trader is a lot of dealers and people trying to get top dollar. I just made a nationwide search for 1990-2001 sub $50K and there were plenty of Newmars, Beavers and Monaco's.

Over in marketplace where millennials go to dump their late father's prize possession, there are Wanderlodge, Custom Coach Prevosts and Newells for under $50K

As a general rule, if my budget is $40K I will spend it on the best quality build regardless of age. It works for me.
I started this search looking for an old GMC bus conversion when i started to see the early diesel pushers had finally come into my price range.

[TonyMac]

"Many resorts and campgrounds have age restrictions"

Really?? Many resorts and campgrounds DO NOT have age restrictions, actually, MOST do not have age restrictions. I'm bombing around in an 18-year-old coach and have NEVER been questioned about the age of my rig, and we like to stay in very nice places; I call it "KOA and Up'. "Some" is even an exaggeration. The word I'd use is "Few". This plan is doable, but you gotta find the right coach.

[Gary RVRoamer]

I think you already understand the risks of what you propose, so I won't belabor that point.



Newells, Prevost conversions, Vogues, & Wanderlodges are in a different class than the near-luxury brands like Country Coach, American Coach, Beaver and the top end models from Newmar & Monaco. And the prices show there is a difference. Foretravel prices seem to be somewhere in-between but toward the near-luxury side.


Cummins is the easiest to find service and parts but more & more shops don't want to tackle any of the older ones because they know that getting parts and even tech info on them is likely to be a nightmare and they don't want to waste time trying.


Those models are going to be 36 ft & up, and to get that "large bath" and "functional kitchen" you will likely need 38-40 ft.


My advice is to start shopping - unless you are incredibly lucky you are going to have to sift through several hundreds and go see several dozen to find one that suits your needs and is in prime condition.

[Bigceasar]

Originally Posted by hertfordnc

The perfect coach is 35 feet or less, with no slides, a large bath and functional kitchen, and maybe some good passenger seating for hauling rental children.

I believe renting children is illegal in at least 49 of the fifty states.

[David 70]

Definitely stay away from the Navistar (IH) engine.

[hertfordnc]

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

I think you already understand the risks of what you propose, so I won't belabor that point.



Newells, Prevost conversions, Vogues, & Wanderlodges are in a different class than the near-luxury brands like Country Coach, American Coach, Beaver and the top end models from Newmar & Monaco. And the prices show there is a difference. Foretravel prices seem to be somewhere in-between but toward the near-luxury side.\ and is in prime condition.

Yes, there's quality and then there's opulent and i lumped them all in the same group. But the common elements are commercial drive trains and purpose built chassis. Not overloaded F450s.