Highway Thru Hell

[Bigd9]

I was watching Highway Thru Hell program the other night. A fully loaded tractor trailer was just cresting a mountain top on a snow covered road. The trucker tried to turn on his Jake Brake but it failed to energize. The announcer broke in explaining how important is was for the trucker to use the Jake and not use his service brakes when going down hill on the very slick road. Cool graphics showed how the truck would jackknife and crash over the hillside if the driver hit his brakes. The truck went faster and faster with the announcer repeating he would just have to ride the hill down to the bottom unless he could get the Jake to come on. As luck would have it, the Jake suddenly came on and the truck successfully slowed down without the poor trucker ever hitting his brakes.

I guess I've been using my exhaust brake all wrong for the last 20 years!

[Skip426]

I would say we'd have to wait for a professional driver to chime in because I'm sure my exhaust brake instructions say not to use on wet or icy roads.
Manual trans could make some difference.
At least no fear of multiple automatic trans down shifts and drive tire lock up.
Service brakes , could cause steering tire lock up and loss of control , the amount of traction available to the drive wheels could be a factor , but I wouldn't want to be the one on the Coke , trying this out , and with a B train .

Like I say , waiting for someone with miles under there belt to reply .

[dfuelman]

25 years with a CDL hauling hazmat (home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel) but I'am no expert. LOL

Don't use Jake brake or any type of exhaust brake in snow and ice. Best to stay of the brakes completely if possible, same for the roads if you are in an RV.

As for descending a mountain like on TV the other night, rule of thumb is "What ever gear you climbed the mountain or grade in, go down hill one gear lower." Let the engine hold you back along with the brakes but don't ride the brakes. I liked to brake and release, give them a chance to cool some before I got back on them again. Keep it going slow and eas on down the mountain. If you do start to skid GET OFF THE BRAKES and start to drive the Coach Once you get it pointed in the correct direction, easy on the brakes again. Sometimes you just gotta drive around something if you can't avoid it. Don't panic, Remember there are skid Marks at almost every crash so brakes are not the answer, steering is. Hope this helps. I park mine if at all possible when the weather turns bad, I hate driving in that mess.

[GuyG]

Originally Posted by dfuelman

25 years with a CDL hauling hazmat (home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel) but I'am no expert. LOL

Don't use Jake brake or any type of exhaust brake in snow and ice. Best to stay of the brakes completely if possible, same for the roads if you are in an RV.

As for descending a mountain like on TV the other night, rule of thumb is "What ever gear you climbed the mountain or grade in, go down hill one gear lower." Let the engine hold you back along with the brakes but don't ride the brakes. I liked to brake and release, give them a chance to cool some before I got back on them again. Keep it going slow and eas on down the mountain. If you do start to skid GET OFF THE BRAKES and start to drive the Coach Once you get it pointed in the correct direction, easy on the brakes again. Sometimes you just gotta drive around something if you can't avoid it. Don't panic, Remember there are skid Marks at almost every crash so brakes are not the answer, steering is. Hope this helps. I park mine if at all possible when the weather turns bad, I hate driving in that mess.

Ditto on all of that. Among my 2-million commercial miles, part of that was doubles for nationwide company. Advice on slippery (ice/snow/rain) was be going the slowest you're ever going to go as you fall off the top of the hill. Didn't have jake brakes but using the natural braking of the engine almost always kept me off the brakes. On the few occasions I needed it, very light, stabbing brake pedal action until I got back to the speed I was comfortable at.

[Old-Biscuit]

What 'natural braking' with a diesel??

everything I have read/heard is NO Jake/Exhaust Braking on slippery roads...ice/snow/rain

Slowing down for the conditions PRIOR and lightly using service brakes (not enough to lock wheels) is what got me thru MANY winters in UT/WY

[theroc]

I'm also a retired commercial driver and have driven semis and commercial buses. I agree with others, Jake, exhaust, or other supplemental retarders are generally not recommended to be used in icy conditions.

I'm surprised that they recommended just the opposite on the show you were watching. I guess on shows like that, they have to make it as dramatic as possible whether they are giving out accurate information or not ...it's for the TV audience that mostly do not drive for a living. I used to laugh at some of the situations that were over-dramatized on Ice Road Truckers.

However, I occasionally have used the jake when driving a semi on compact snow and ice going down a completely straight grade that I knew did not have any curved sections or places where I'd have to make multiple gear changes.

Typically, I'd try to float gear changes if they were needed and leave the jake off when doing down a steep grade in icy conditions but generally, as has been mentioned, it's ideal to use the same gearing and go the similar speed you'd use going up.

When driving buses for a transit agency, they retrofitted their Gillig fleet with transmission retarders that initially were activated anytime you'd lift your foot off the fuel treadle. It made such a jerky downshift when activated that even when the roads were wet, it could possibly send the bus into a skid. They then put it on the brake treadle, that helped but still made a jerky downshift when just a slight application on the pedal was used on some of the units. In either case, there was no way to turn it off. They finally installed a switch were we could turn it off when in slippery conditions as there were so many complaints from the drivers. These buses had automatic transmissions, btw, and of course were similar to driving a motorhome.

In the motorhomes I've had, I seldom used the exhaust brake even on dry roads unless I made the conscious decision to turn it on in certain conditions where I wanted to supplement the service brakes to slow down. I also don't like the brake lights coming on when the exhaust brake is used and have been known to disconnect that feature but it usually wasn't a big deal to me for as I said, I seldom used the exhaust brake in the first place, hah.

Attached is a checklist of tips on jake brake usage that I have in my files --note what's #1 on the list:

[alank]

All that was described by the OP was a “set up” to be filmed for TV to appear to be more serious than it really was. They have to make a show. The wrecks they are working on the show are the real thing that quite often happen due to driver error. Sometimes, things are such that wrecks are going to happen no matter what the driver does. Slow and easy in bad conditions is best if you have to be out.

I remember watching a pile-up that happened on an interstate. There just happened to be a camera mounted on a tower where it happened. Really was a scary event. People were getting out of their cars to look around, and then another vehicle would come crashing into the pile. Stay in your car or instantly get clear of the highway, out past the shoulders and ditches. In this event, semi’s also filled the shoulders and ditches.

[busyguy]

I did 2.5 million miles pulling doubles and triples for a large trucking company. I always heard that when a driver lost control on icy or snowy roads and then recovered that he was a really good driver.
I told other drivers, when you loose it on slick roads, you just became a passenger.

[Busskipper]

While not in the Million mile club this is How I taught my Drivers -

"Keep it going slow and easy on down the mountain. If you do start to skid GET OFF THE BRAKES and start to drive the Coach Once you get it pointed in the correct direction, easy on the brakes again. Sometimes you just gotta drive around something if you can't avoid it. Don't panic, Remember there are skid Marks at almost every crash so brakes are not the answer, steering is. Hope this helps. I park mine if at all possible when the weather turns bad, I hate driving in that mess."

Steering and Parking - that sums it up......Just be Smart!

JMHO,

[W5CI]

after a 30 year career driving trucks the Last thing you want to do is use the Jake Brake on Wet or Icy roads, don't ask me how I know this. but it will make you pucker up

[Ivylog]

Many recommendations are intended to idiot proof something... I’ve questioned the no Jake when it’s raining. Yes, using it could defeat the ABS modulating your brakes but if you are down to that, you are in deep trouble. ABS is a idiot proofing so you maintain steering control so hopefully you will steer your way out of a bad situation instead of plowing into it. Based on the # of videos of cars sliding into other vehicles, not sure how well ABS works in snow.

Agree a downshift while using the Jake could be enough to loose traction in slippery conditions... keeping it in one gear would solve that. Unlike a car, most of the braking is by the rear brakes on a MH so loosing steering control is probably less of an issue in a MH.

In 150+K miles of DP driving I’ve had one situation where I was not sure I’d get stopped in time so I steered my way out of the situation. Continued to max brake to see if I needed to divert... would have stopped just in time. If conditions are ice I’m parked at a location of my choosing, not in a ditch. If it’s just rain I’ll continue to use my Jake.

[azpete]

the best thing to use in a dangerous situation is your head. ive driven rv's and service trucks over a million miles in the last 20 years, and have seen all kind of accidents. most were operators error. just being nice, and using a little co operation would have prevented a lot of them.
just because you can doesnt mean you should. driving too fast, and over your level of expertise is always a foolish thing to do.
some think the right of way is theirs. i always yield to larger vehicles and crazy people.
sometimes, i have the right of way, and yield just to make traffic flow better.
"common sense is an uncommon thing." my dad used to say that.when i was a teen, i thought that didnt make sense. now, i see he was right.

[Crasher]

It's not just snowy or icy roads that can bite you when using the Jake brake. Wet roads can be just as bad. In a moderate to heavy rain coming out of Corpus Christi, TX on asphalt two lane road @ 45 mph, I let off the power on a slight curve. That triggered the exhaust brake to come on and the transmission to downshift. The rear wheels broke loose and the rear of our 36' Discovery started sliding into the oncoming lane. I regained control by applying slight power which disengaged the EB and we were back in our lane when the oncoming car went by. That made a believer out of me. I realize that it was the sudden downshift that cause it, but that's what it's designed to do. The Jake goes off when the road is snow covered, icy or even just wet.

[DutchmenSport]

I just can't resist .... I'm playing Devil's advocate here: