RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-16-2020, 08:10 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: California
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilvmygt View Post
Are you over weight? 8 adults at 175# is 1400# and 8 kids at 100# is 800# for a total 2200# for just the people not including the gear and food. Have to had the coach weighed ready to travel with everyone on board to make sure you are not over the GVWR?
The kids are like 4-6 years old and adults are about $125 average. So I donít think we are over weight. Though I have to look into that.
Evugrandtour is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-16-2020, 10:28 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
GypsyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 743
One reason I bought mine specifically because I knew I could rebuild the E4OD myself if need be. There are a number of upgrades/updates I would do at that time. The E40D is a well dated design and most of its issues are well known by the repair industry.

The name of the company doesn't matter so much, you're relying on the guy in the back and it's a gamble. Does he build according to what his research and and experience has shown to work well? Go by "the book", nothing more, nothing less? (Kind of an AAMCO/Ford/Jasper thing) Or does he do the minimum necessary to get the transmission out of his shop? It's a crap shoot. FWIW, one of the best transmission builders I ever met worked at AAMCO. In the long run he didn't get along with the franchise owners but for a while that shop was the best one to go to around here. Unfortunately it's a crap shoot.

You're not leading off terribly well. If your OD light was flashing that means that the computer should have set a code. The first thing a shop would do would be look at the fluid and check the codes. And should be able to tell the customer what code(s) it had set and what they hopefully indicated of what happened.

If it were me I'd try and get a "crate" transmission from Transtar. They are one of the few that add in the upgrades in a standard rebuild. Plus you can get an overkill :Road Ripper" version if you want. Three year warranty. Transtar is the biggest supplier of transmission parts out there. AAMCO sources their own parts but almost all other shops at least deal with Transtar and can deal with warranty issues for them coast to coast.

As for driving, I believe an automatic is supposed to be automatic. I leave it in OD and floor it as needed. I have a Toyota toad and for anything heavier I would probably be using the OD cancel switch. But I won't and don't. I will for a rough downgrade though. And pulling the the gears down manually will happen. We have a pretty nasty grade locally called Saluda that warrants third but speeds are a bit high for second.

Once the transmission is back in operation, the highest priority should be getting that tag axle braking again. You need that extra bit of whoa power.

I don't think mine has been above 3600 RPM, according to my tach. As long as it's under 4000 I don't consider it screaming to a point it would worry me. Personally.

You're right about the interior, it's sharp as a tack and looks nothing like the age of the coach. I like to think mine has held up pretty nicely and I have had compliments but it doesn't hold a candle.
GypsyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2020, 07:34 PM   #17
Member
 
Bobog's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 46
To start with, I think you have a weight problem that needs to be addressed first. I'm guessing your rig weighs 18,000 lbs before you add in 1,500 lbs of people. What is the GVW? What is the actual weight with everyone and everything on board? Fix this issue first. You may need to have half your family follow in a car.

Also, how many seatbelts are in it? I'm guessing a maximum of 9 and therefore you have a lot of potential meat missiles in a crash. You are probably breaking some seatbelt laws too, depending on where you are travelling.

Also, fix the brakes on the tag axle before you go anywhere! Brakes on only 2 out of 3 axles is against the law, dangerous and could get you sued!

As to the transmission, I echo Lt46's sentiments. The 460 and E4OD (Electronics Controlled 4 speed with an overdrive gear) is a decent combination that should last a long time if it is kept cool and with regular fluid changes. The Ford overdrive is simply 4th gear. It does not affect 1st - 3rd gears the way a Gear Vendors unit or a 2 speed axle does.

With your weight and a tag axle, even a slight hill may see the trans drop from 4th (overdrive) to 3rd (direct drive). On ours, I would watch the road ahead and press the O/D Off button on the end of the shifter as soon as a noticeable up hill grade started. If I left it on its own, our RV would try to climb in 4th and then, after slowing maybe 5 mph, it would downshift to 3rd which means that even in 3rd gear, it was not able to use the full torque curve.

The 460 EFI produces its maximum torque around 1,800 - 3,000 RPM. Remember, horsepower is a calculated number that really doesn't help RVers much. We care mostly about torque which is why diesels are so popular. Running an engine at the horsepower peak burns a lot more fuel for a speed gain of only a few MPH. Also, it wears things out faster, runs hotter, and is noisy.

Here's a scenario and my recommendations. Note this is from my increasingly unreliable memory so the speeds and RPMs are all + or - a bit: running at 60 MPH on a flat road. Tach will read 2,600 RPM or so. Slight uphill that looks to longer than 1/4 mile, drop to 3rd gear before the hill slows you down. Tach will read 3,400 or so and you will maintain speed. Before the days of EFI and overdrive transmissions, 3,000 RPM was normal for highway cruising so you aren't stressing anything.

If the hill gets steeper, you are going to slow down some more even with the gas pedal pressed 90% down. When RPMs drop to 2,000 shift the transmission into '2'. The engine will jump back up to 3,500 or so and you will probably hold the 35-40 MPH you are doing, even up a 7% grade. If you are going up a really nasty hill (I have seen 13%) then repeat the process of dropping into 1st gear at 2,000 RPM. Upshift when you have to back off the throttle so you don't exceed 4,000 RPM.

Coming down the other side, use the same gear or one lower than the one you used to go up. When you see the tach at 4,200 RPM use the brakes to drop your speed by 20 MPH then get off them so they don't overheat. Watch the tach!

Looking at your beautiful motorhome, I would spend the $ to put a properly rebuilt trans in it. If the original lasted 43 K miles, a properly rebuilt one should last even longer. The 460 will go practically forever with proper maintenance. Think of it as preserving your investment.
__________________
Greg & Tess Harrison, Maltese X named Camper
'04 Bounder 35E on W22, '10 Honda CR-V toad
Near Edmonton, Alberta
Bobog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2020, 09:12 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
GypsyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 743
I just made a 400 mile round trip and on the way back through some modest hills I tried the OD cancel switch method and decided it was silly waste of time for me. All I need to do is give it full throttle before actually needing to and it downshifts without me fiddling with a button. Kind of what an automatic is supposed to do. If yours does not behave this way and downshifts are too late you might want to check and make sure your throttle position switch (TPS) is in adjustment and reading correctly. Older Fords often do tend to need new TPS's.
GypsyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 12:22 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: California
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR View Post
One reason I bought mine specifically because I knew I could rebuild the E4OD myself if need be. There are a number of upgrades/updates I would do at that time. The E40D is a well dated design and most of its issues are well known by the repair industry.

The name of the company doesn't matter so much, you're relying on the guy in the back and it's a gamble. Does he build according to what his research and and experience has shown to work well? Go by "the book", nothing more, nothing less? (Kind of an AAMCO/Ford/Jasper thing) Or does he do the minimum necessary to get the transmission out of his shop? It's a crap shoot. FWIW, one of the best transmission builders I ever met worked at AAMCO. In the long run he didn't get along with the franchise owners but for a while that shop was the best one to go to around here. Unfortunately it's a crap shoot.

You're not leading off terribly well. If your OD light was flashing that means that the computer should have set a code. The first thing a shop would do would be look at the fluid and check the codes. And should be able to tell the customer what code(s) it had set and what they hopefully indicated of what happened.

If it were me I'd try and get a "crate" transmission from Transtar. They are one of the few that add in the upgrades in a standard rebuild. Plus you can get an overkill :Road Ripper" version if you want. Three year warranty. Transtar is the biggest supplier of transmission parts out there. AAMCO sources their own parts but almost all other shops at least deal with Transtar and can deal with warranty issues for them coast to coast.

As for driving, I believe an automatic is supposed to be automatic. I leave it in OD and floor it as needed. I have a Toyota toad and for anything heavier I would probably be using the OD cancel switch. But I won't and don't. I will for a rough downgrade though. And pulling the the gears down manually will happen. We have a pretty nasty grade locally called Saluda that warrants third but speeds are a bit high for second.

Once the transmission is back in operation, the highest priority should be getting that tag axle braking again. You need that extra bit of whoa power.

I don't think mine has been above 3600 RPM, according to my tach. As long as it's under 4000 I don't consider it screaming to a point it would worry me. Personally.

You're right about the interior, it's sharp as a tack and looks nothing like the age of the coach. I like to think mine has held up pretty nicely and I have had compliments but it doesn't hold a candle.

Thank you for your reply.
My rig is 20000lbs. There was about 8 adults (160 x 8 = 1280 and 35 x 8 = 280 so 1560 total). Youíre right about the whole seatbelt thing. I honestly just thought that Iím driving bus and I can stuff any many as I can and that was stupid of me. I also was just doing it wrong this whole time. I kept it around 2500rpm because I thought thatís the best rpm for the engine and has mileage. But according to everyone, 3000 seems like the right one. So when I was at 2500 rpm, that was just to slow for the engine and transmission to hold rpm when climbing.
I drove the v10 triton and I just love it so much how well it holds when going up hill. Iím wondering what could I do to this v8 to make it more powerful.
Evugrandtour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 04:37 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 24,251
If your looking for maximum HP or torque at a particular RPM, you need the gas pedal to the floor.
When a HP/torque is measured, or calculated, its always at wide open throttle.

People seem to think holding the engine at a certain RPM is giving them the max HP. Unless the pedal is floored, and there is no more to give, they are not.
If you can step down on the gas and the RPMs increase, your not at max HP.
twinboat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 05:21 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,467
I'm sure weight and the mountain played a role in the transmission issue



BUT, I had a 1997 Ford Class C with the 460 engine and I believe the same transmission. This was a much lighter rig and never overloaded. I had the transmission fail, it started to leak and then pour transmission fluid. Had to towed to a mechanic I use after he agreed to take a look at it. He does a lot of transmissions. He pulled the tranny and found the only problem was a seal on the output shaft. Ordered a new seal which came with a warning saying "Original Seal Not Suitable For Heavy Duty Truck Application" . Are you kidding me, what is an RV which is basically loaded heavy all the time. The seal solved the transmission problem but put a really bad taste in mouth for Fords, haven't bought another one since.



If you are having the transmission built at a reputable shop and getting a warranty I'd consider keeping the rig, but I'd also check the exhaust manifolds as I had both of them fail on mine within 18 months of purchase. It was a known problem back then. Another bad taste!!!!!
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 07:44 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 782
I had a long post and lost it..

I had a 4 and have a 96,, bothe class C, same combo.. lighter yes but I towed "heavy"
16-18 K GCVW,, the 94 was sold with 195K and lives to tell the tales.. I had added a Jasper cooler and Bank commander earl, change atf yearly or after a hot episode.. only used Wolf head or amsoil Hd ATf..
My 96 has now 37K on it, I have used it for around 8K,, I have cooked it twice on 95+ temps on hills , it hit 240+ engine an trans over 230 for miles .... my problem was a bad cat/clogged muffler ...
Anywa. I run at max most of the time,, heavy. I have added the Jasper cooler that by passes rad cool.. argu.. yes,, but in my rigs it works,, trans sees maybe 200-205 while motor still sees 220-230 on hard long pulls..

Get an ammco factory or Jasper crate with 3 year commercial warranty.. my shops around here do alot of them.. I am sure a 4x4 diesel shop also has some connections on the e40d.. they have quirks.

replace the cooler regardless as the bad stuff from bad trans get stuck on lines and cooler,, ..

When I drive , i have OD off when below 60 mph on any hill or moderate grade roads..

down shifts on any big hills ,, urgh,, with gps and apps watch terrain and plan. if od off,, that starts , a drop to 2, will leave you in second,, so a slow down in "2" will start you off in "2", remember to drop to 1 or back to D when starting to accelerate at times when you use 2 and forget.. lol
sibe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 08:01 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
camper8251's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MT
Posts: 396
Simple Answer....

Maybe the transmission was a POS to begin with from the previous build.
I cant imagine that You Broke it....
To Me it sounds like the transmission was slipping to begin with.
As someone else said, An Automatic trans is just that automatic.

The only time I think the OD being on or off would be if you are towing something heavy or climbing a hill.. Then they tell you not to use OD....

Have AAMCO upgrade the transmission and Cooler and ask them how it should be driven they are the experts supposedly...instead of listening to some folks who may or may not know what they are talking about..
__________________
Creekside 23DBS
Silverado 2500HD Duramax
USN (RET)
camper8251 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 08:19 AM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: California
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
I'm sure weight and the mountain played a role in the transmission issue



BUT, I had a 1997 Ford Class C with the 460 engine and I believe the same transmission. This was a much lighter rig and never overloaded. I had the transmission fail, it started to leak and then pour transmission fluid. Had to towed to a mechanic I use after he agreed to take a look at it. He does a lot of transmissions. He pulled the tranny and found the only problem was a seal on the output shaft. Ordered a new seal which came with a warning saying "Original Seal Not Suitable For Heavy Duty Truck Application" . Are you kidding me, what is an RV which is basically loaded heavy all the time. The seal solved the transmission problem but put a really bad taste in mouth for Fords, haven't bought another one since.



If you are having the transmission built at a reputable shop and getting a warranty I'd consider keeping the rig, but I'd also check the exhaust manifolds as I had both of them fail on mine within 18 months of purchase. It was a known problem back then. Another bad taste!!!!!
So the current AAMCO shop say that the shaft was stripped and caused transmission failure and overheated. And they are rebuilding it. It is out of warranty by 9 months, with just 3000 miles.
Evugrandtour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 08:20 AM   #25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: California
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by camper8251 View Post
Simple Answer....

Maybe the transmission was a POS to begin with from the previous build.
I cant imagine that You Broke it....
To Me it sounds like the transmission was slipping to begin with.
As someone else said, And Automatic trans is just that automatic.
The only time I think the OD being on or off would be if you are towing something heavy.. Then they tell you not to use OD....

Have AAMCO upgrade the transmission and Cooler and ask them how it should be driven they are the experts supposedly...instead of listening to some folks who may or may not know what they are talking about..
So AAMCO is rebuilding it. Itís almost done. The shop owner said they did upgrade the cooler. But what do you mean by upgrading the trans?
Evugrandtour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 08:31 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
camper8251's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MT
Posts: 396
I am not a trans expert nor did I sleep at an holiday inn express..

But sometimes there are upgraded parts they can throw in the trans to help make it more bullet proof.....



https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...d-rebuild.html

It seems there are lots of articles on the internet about that transmission and how to increase its reliability...

I think you have a nice looking rig and if you can get the transmission squared away you will be good to go, there are lots of options out there if it fails again.

Make sure you get those brakes taken care of too....

From the internet: https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/t...-off-road-use/

TEN E4OD REBUILD TIPS
Upgrades/updates to beef up your truck’s Ford E4OD automatic to handle the rigors of engine mods and off-road use. Tips courtesy of Gary Haslip, Geezer Garage:
Rear planetary. Keep the three-pinion OE aluminum one if it doesn’t show signs of wear. This planetary seldom causes issues. If in doubt, replace it with a six-pinion steel version used in the Power Strokes.
Low Reverse Clutch. When installing the Low reverse frictions make sure the clearance is between .020-.040” to shorten the delay going into reverse. You can use perfromnace frictions and steels to get the tighter tolerances.
Center support. If it has a little bronze bushing (Pre-‘95). Toss it. Upgrade to the bearing version (’95 E4OD and 4R100). While the center support is out, add a gasket available from Sonnax #36743G.
Front planetary. Change from OE three-pinion aluminum to a six-pinion steel used in the Power Strokes because the splines in the aluminum planet strips.
Intermediate Clutch: Replace the two OE frictions and steels with three Red Eagle frictions and Kolene steels.
Overdrive planetary. Change the overdrive planetary to steel. This is a must as the aluminum versions had a tendency to split the neck.
Center Support Hub: Install a ’96-4R100 version that uses the roller bearing assembly instead of a bronze bushing found in’95-older E4ODs. Requires newer Center Shaft, too.
Pump. Nix the E9 (’89-’94) for an F5 (’95) or F8 (’98 E4OD) to provide better cooling and higher line pressures.
Servo piston. Replace the OE servo piston if it has the snap-ring and plate for a ’96-’97 style that’s sans snap-ring/plate.
Bearings and bushings. Replace all bearings and replace brass bushings that show wear.
Note: If this is your first E4OD rebuild rodeo, get an Automatic Transmission Service Group (ATSG) Ford manual and the companion “Update Handbook,” which covers the numerous upgrades made between 1989-1997.
__________________
Creekside 23DBS
Silverado 2500HD Duramax
USN (RET)
camper8251 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 09:32 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
GypsyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 743
I hadn't seen that list of 10 tips before but whoever wrote it is definitely on point. Because of that stuff the "core" transmissions for Powerstroke trucks commanded a premium about ten years ago and that stuff was all difficult and expensive to lay hands on. The aftermarket bits are still spendy but the transmission cores are a bit easier to a get hold of these days. (I have one stashed)

Know that it you print that list and take it to AAMCO they are most likely first going to look at you like you just stepped out of a UFO and then pretty much double your rebuild estimate to get all that done. There are shops that have more experience specializing in such work who would look at the list and say "Well, yeah, we were going to do all that anyway, as per the estimate" but they are pretty uncommon (and independently owned). AAMCO does their stuff by the official company rebuild manuals and normally has no interest in such updates or variations form the norm. Same goes for the contractors who do the "official factory rebuilds" for Ford, GM, and Mopar.

Transtar/Recon sells a three year warranty transmissions packed with such upgrades they call the "road ripper" option. Meant mainly for the crowd with loud giant tire pickups that belch black clouds of smoke but good stuff for heavy duty use too. The people driving pickups cross country all the time with trailers carrying three or four cars on them like road rippers too.
GypsyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, ford



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Used Class A Gasser: Ford Triton V-10, or Ford 460 V-8? Peter Henry MH-General Discussions & Problems 7 09-29-2020 08:05 AM
1997 Ford 460 No MIL, no fuel pressure or spark. Please help WillSmith Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 7 10-11-2018 07:14 AM
How to tow properly - tow gear and in drive? Durango Dave Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 17 06-18-2017 02:58 PM
88 E350 Ford 460 RV will not start ?!?!? HELP PLEASE Zmalas89 iRV2.com General Discussion 9 08-07-2016 10:00 AM
HVAC will cycle on and off properly. PLEASE HELP! THANKS! Goatkeeper Monaco Owner's Forum 6 10-25-2011 05:48 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.