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Old 12-30-2017, 12:25 PM   #71
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Although changing an air filter more than required is a waste of money, it will not cause harm.

Thinking a fresh air filter will cause damage is just silly.

A manufacturer would never design and/or recommend an air filter that causes damage.

Do you “pre dirty” your air filters when you are required to change them? Does the manufacturer “pre dirty” your air filter on the assembly line? LOL!
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by TonyMac View Post
Remember, EGT is just that, the temperature of the exhaust gas. You need to cool the turbine face with that 350* Exhaust Gas, so give it a few minutes at 350* EGT. And no, it won't cool better in OFF, it'll just hang at wehatever temp you left it.
Ya, it's true that the steel components, specifically the exhaust manifold and the turbo housing, will be hotter than the exhaust gasses for some time once you go to idle after a hard pull. I guess I have always assumed that the 350° EGT measurement was the point where the steel was at a safe temperature to shut the engine down. No one ever talks about measuring the temperature of the turbo housing itself. I would think that the turbine fins would cool very quickly since they have such low mass.

Next time I get the chance, I'm going to shut the engine off once the EGT cools to 350, and then turn the ignition back on so the gage is activated. I want to see just how much the temp climbs without the exhaust running through it. This number would vary, I'm sure, based on location of the temperature probe...

FYI... if I let it idle long enough, EGT levels out around 300°... if I remember correctly.

-cheers
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by 325BH View Post
Although changing an air filter more than required is a waste of money, it will not cause harm.

Thinking a fresh air filter will cause damage is just silly.

A manufacturer would never design and/or recommend an air filter that causes damage.

Do you “pre dirty” your air filters when you are required to change them? Does the manufacturer “pre dirty” your air filter on the assembly line? LOL!
Let's not confuse a simple scientific observation about filter performance, with practical use. It's a well known and accepted fact that an air cleaner's filtering efficiency (with regard to the size of particle it will allow to pass thru) increases after installation. That doesn't mean we should be inclined to think that a fresh air filter, of and by itself, would cause "damage." Nor should we be inclined to think that we needed to "pre-dirty" our air filters before using them to get the best micron rating possible. That's a good term though... "pre-dirty..." I may use that in the future.

There is, however, risk of contaminating the intake system when changing the air filter... especially on a pusher. The air cleaners are always in the worst possible places - behind the rear wheels where all of the road dust and grime settles. This is a solid argument for opening up the intake system only when necessary...

-cheers
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:21 AM   #74
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I dont doubt that every concern mentioned above is valid and will damage a diesel motor I just question the time frame.

Any driver out there that does not own the rig he drives (no skin in the game) will not take as good care of it as someone who has his own money invested in the equipment. If IMHO it would only take a few miles to destroy a diesel motor when the filter is letting air past or idles too long or not enough then it seems to me that most of the rigs out there would be in the shop.

I did some research and it seemed to indicate that damage will be done over time, such as 10,000 miles or so, which makes more sense, at least to me. Then there is mention of the fast idle control. So idle is not the problem, low rpms are the problem? If you use fast idle is there a suggested time limit?

Now the turbo is a different animal. I do agree that the tolerances in a turbo are very close and dust is a turbo's mortal enemy. I understand that it is pretty easy to seriously damage a turbo.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:24 AM   #75
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Hi ga, I believe your story but I dont think I believe the dealer. Now, before somebody says, no dealership would tell a lie like that, let me say this, hahahahohohehehehahaha!!!

If the air cleaner would go brittle after getting wet a few times we would be warned not to drive in the rain or to pull off the road if it starts raining. Maybe if the air filter was ignored for a logn period of time and left where the surroundings were damp; I dont know. Considering, you even kept it inside I doubt that is the case.

Further. If this did happen I have my doubts as to weather it would be that detrimental to the motor. I do realize it can cause severe damage I just dont know if it is that likely. It is three thousand degrees at the time of firing so even if the paper enters during the intake stroke it will probably turn to ash almost immediately. For it to be caught between the valve and its seat would be unlikely given how thin the seats are and how fast the air fuel moves or how hot it is.

Remember, this is just food for thought from a cynical old forgetful man. JMHO
Maybe I should have been a little bit clearer. I was trying to get across the point that air filters age and get brittle. All filters get wet . It is the repeated wet and dry and age that causes the failure. I was telling people to change the filter at the time the manufacturer says to change it. I believe Caterpillar told the truth. We have done business with them for years and this is the first time they have refused service. My guess (and it is a guess) is the filter shredded in the turbo and held the intake valve slightly open causing the piston to hit the valve. Not enough to wipe out the valve, but just enough to cause the knock on cold start up.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:32 AM   #76
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Let's not confuse a simple scientific observation about filter performance, with practical use. It's a well known and accepted fact that an air cleaner's filtering efficiency (with regard to the size of particle it will allow to pass thru) increases after installation. That doesn't mean we should be inclined to think that a fresh air filter, of and by itself, would cause "damage." Nor should we be inclined to think that we needed to "pre-dirty" our air filters before using them to get the best micron rating possible. That's a good term though... "pre-dirty..." I may use that in the future.

There is, however, risk of contaminating the intake system when changing the air filter... especially on a pusher. The air cleaners are always in the worst possible places - behind the rear wheels where all of the road dust and grime settles. This is a solid argument for opening up the intake system only when necessary...

-cheers


That is a great explanation and one that I figured was the true reason.

Thanks
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:16 PM   #77
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K&N filters used to be sprayed with some sticky stuff prior to usage...so it kinda did the "pre-dirt". Of course the spray was to cling to the dirt particles.

The K&N I just put in is installed dry. Haven't had to clean it yet, but it's cleaned with detergent and water.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:04 PM   #78
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K&N filters used to be sprayed with some sticky stuff prior to usage...so it kinda did the "pre-dirt". Of course the spray was to cling to the dirt particles.

The K&N I just put in is installed dry. Haven't had to clean it yet, but it's cleaned with detergent and water.

I guess I'm behind the times as I did not know K&N made an air filter that did not need to be oiled. that is their whole sales pitch. They all had to be washed when dirty, then dried and oiled before reinstalling. Are you certain you were not supposed to oil it before using it???
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:17 PM   #79
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I had a KN filter on my pickup truck, oiled with a light red oil, like Marvel Mystery Oil......Dry?
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:22 PM   #80
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K&N went to dry paper, because diesel engine manufactures didn't approve the oiled ones.

They still wanted to sell filters. Its all just marketing.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:15 PM   #81
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If you believe a fresh filter will allow some dust through then it stands to reason not to prematurly change them. Its like religion believe what you want to and do what you think is right.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:00 PM   #82
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I guess I'm behind the times as I did not know K&N made an air filter that did not need to be oiled. that is their whole sales pitch. They all had to be washed when dirty, then dried and oiled before reinstalling. Are you certain you were not supposed to oil it before using it???
https://www.knfilters.com/search/pro...Q9AXtNP9JJ7pWU

"They use a new hybrid filtration medium that's incredibly easy to clean. They can be washed using power sprayers, pressure washers or standard truck washing equipment and they do not require the use of oil. Instead of repeatedly throwing away expensive disposable air filters, now you have a choice."
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:22 AM   #83
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K&N bought AEM a few years back. AEM made the Dry Flow filter that is washable and no oil. I have one in my pickup. I wish they made one for my Workhorse.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:25 AM   #84
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K&N bought AEM a few years back. AEM made the Dry Flow filter that is washable and no oil. I have one in my pickup. I wish they made one for my Workhorse.
I thought I responded to this already so if there is a duplicate somewhere I apologize.

My F53/ Ford V10 did not seem to have a CAI intake kit that would fit it so I purchased two of the least expensive 4" fCAI units I could. (about 50 bucks each) and combined them to get enough reach to get the filter in front of the radiator.

CAI units are nothing but air that someone has put a piece of pipe around so all that is needed is enough pipe to get that air where it should be.
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