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ThePowells · 08-27-2017, 11:17 AM

As somebody pointed out, ether like many things are great in small doses. Telling an inexperienced person to "just use either" is reckless at best. I have had to start CAT motors with ether. The trick is to use the absolute minimum needed. As was stated, now the issue is pre-heaters and once past that, pre-detonation and washing the cylinder walls are the two biggest issues. I wonder if the OP would feel as great about that phone call when the factory rep denied the claim to replace the motor due to ether use and the service manager said "what phone call?".

Bigd9 · 08-27-2017, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funjnt

Don't use ether. Understand the problem and also understand what you need to do instead of using ether.

So you had air bubbles in your fuel system. Not sure why but usually that indicates a leak on the suction side of the fuel system. So using ether ran the engine and ran the fuel pump thus priming the system and allowing fuel to flow to the injectors again. Now how do we do it without ether? On the cat motors, on top of the fuel filter, usually, there is a round knob on what looks like a slanted thing. That is your primer pump. If you unscrew the round know it will pull up or out, this is the plunger. Once it's out start pumping it over and over. If there is air in the system you won't feel much resistance. As it builds up fuel and the air is gone you will feel resistance in the pump as you are now circulating fuel through the injection pump etc. This is what you want to feel. Push the plunger down and screw back in. Now you should be primed and ready to start. Depending on how much air you got in system you may need to crank a bit. Hold it to the floor until it is running on it's own and cleans up so to speak.

Cummins motors have an electric lift pump that usually cycles with the key switch for 30 secs. Key on and off a few times to prime system then start.

Ether is not for novices. To use ether you must disable glow plugs or grid heater or major damage can happen. Even without glow plugs you can have pre detonation and that will certainly bend a rod.

Learn your systems and you will be just fine.

My Cat C7 and many others do not have the manual fuel pump as you explain. There is just a blocking plate where the pump can go. Many on this forum have bought and added the manual pump to their engines.

As Twinboat mentioned in post 14, you most likely have a suction fuel leak introducing air into the system. Last year the diesel/water drain on my primary filter suddenly started to leak. It allowed air to be sucked up and into the fuel lines causing the engine to run rough. When checking out things, I found a drop or two of fuel below the filter and figured out what was happening. A new fuel filter bown fixed the problem.

Winemaker2 · 08-27-2017, 03:38 PM

Best advice is to ignore online OPINIONS and read your engine mfg manual and follow them.
I would not leave home w/o a roadside assist policy from Good Sams FMCA or others.

F76Marion · 08-27-2017, 03:45 PM

As a lifelong diesel engineer, I strongly suggest that you learn the proper way to bleed the engine fuel system. They didn't use ether to start it when it was new and I never have had to use it on any engine. Sometimes we had trouble starting them, but unless it is an flogged out GM 2-stroke, it will start.

Frank

nehog · 08-27-2017, 06:45 PM

Only engines without glow plugs, or heater grids can safely be started with ether! If your engine has either (most do) do not ever use ether!

Some use WD-40 but I don't recommend it.

twinboat · 08-27-2017, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nehog

Only engines without glow plugs, or heater grids can safely be started with ether! If your engine has either (most do) do not ever use ether!

Some use WD-40 but I don't recommend it.

I pulled a piston from a Allis Chalmers dozer engine, due to improper ether use. It blew the crown into the oil pan. No pre heat system.

It isn't safe in the wrong hands or amounts.

Rkesselus · 08-27-2017, 07:14 PM

Buy a new can of WD 40 and try to light it.

twinboat · 08-28-2017, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rkesselus

Buy a new can of WD 40 and try to light it.

Save a little $ and download the MSDS.

WD40 is a flamable liquid with a flash point of 122 degrees F.

Diesel fuel is a flamable liquid with a flash point of 125 to 205 degrees F.

Bigd9 · 08-28-2017, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winemaker2

Best advice is to ignore online OPINIONS and read your engine mfg manual and follow them.
I would not leave home w/o a roadside assist policy from Good Sams FMCA or others.

Good advice and this pertains to many things tires, batteries, idling etc. Manufactures all post sound advice on their products.

Akcontender · 08-28-2017, 09:22 PM

Diesel engines will run on WD40. I have used that numerous times in pickup trucks and backhoes. It lubricants rather than washing down the cylinder walls like ether. Ether is hard on engines for sure. I've heard engines knock after people used ether to start them in our cold Alaska climate.

Ray,IN · 08-28-2017, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmachine

Without hijacking the thread, would propane be any better or worse than ether for emergency starting? I have used it to get HMMWVs started in freezing weather when the glow plugs were ineffective.

It is worse, it's more explosive. Cummins engines use a grid heater to preheat incoming air. Introduce anything that will ignite into the air intake of a cold engine and it goes BOOM as soon at it contacts the energized grid heater, which is prior to entering the combustion chambers. Injecting propane into the air intake AFTER the grid heater while the engine is running improves HP.
If a diesel engine is hard to start there are several items to check, first is fuel filters-they can either be dirty/clogged or leaking air into the fuel system. Second is fuel shut-off solenoid. Third is fuel pump.

Crasher · 08-29-2017, 08:02 AM

Back in the 60's the John Deere 4020 came with a fitting that held a can of ether. There was also a push button that would release the etherinto the air intake manifold. It was very effective in starting the engine when temps were below 10-20*, but you needed to be cranking when you gave it a shot. The newer Diesel engines are much easier starting with the pre-heater and glow plugs. If the engine won't start, there is a good reason why and ether is not the answer.

twinboat · 08-29-2017, 10:27 AM

Quick Start ether systems are avalable as a winter starting aids on many engines.

The shot of ether is metered, for the size engine, and shot into the intake, past any heaters.

They are sort of like the pain killer buttons in hospital beds. You can push it all you want, your only getting the subscribed dose.

They are for assisting in cold weather starting, not to prime a fuel starved injection system.