Input on AGM batteries

[nothermark]

You might find these two links very interesting:

http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/pdf/T...dSpecGuide.pdf

Comparing Flooded Batteries to VRLA Batteries

It is worth looking at the different life expectancies of the various families. You do get what you pay for and you do pay for what you get. ;-)

[hes4all]

Going on 6 years with my Lifeline AGM's. Never one problem. work great and I do boondock a ton with residential fridge.

With my Magnum charger I have it set on the Lifeline settings. I like that the batteries can take a higher charge rate with my solar with the days getting shorter!

[Smitty77]

A 'special charger', configured specifically for the battery involved, will most likley yield more years of usage out of AGM's. As mentioned, Lifeline AGM's have different 3 stage settings then other AGM's or leaded batteries.

I also feel it pays to have a temp sensor loop on a charger. If you have an older inverter/charger and upgrading to AGM's, probably a good idea to upgrade the inverter/charger to a PSW model. If doing so, check to see if either your brand AGM's are covered with a pre programmed setting, or has the ability to have Custom settings, so that you can maximize the charge cycle for your specific battery. Temp sensors add on at this time, are also prudent.

Leaded, AGM, or the Lithium models now coming down in price and increasing in options to choose from - are making the subject of batteries very interesting. Change is good, so keeping up with what is going on and is coming, is fun reading!

Best to all,
Smitty

[Randyman1]

I too have replaced my batteries with Lifeline AGM's. My coach came with them, the owner or dealership swapped them out (don't know why) for flooded cell batteries. Didn't have the coach 2 months when I decided that trying to keep 8 batteries watered and corrosion free wasn't for me. The interstate batteries were only 2 years old and 6 out of the 8 had bad cells. Put 8 new Lifelines in, fortunately no damage done to battery compartment and life has been great ever since. Not cheap, but if batteries or tires were going to be a deal breaker I wouldn't have invested in one of these coaches in the first place. No armored cars in those funeral processions, you know. Randy

[wa8yxm]

Well the MK AGM's I tried were hooked to a Xantrex Prosine (nothing else, independent of the house) the Prosine was programmed for them on the charger side.. They lasted 5 years.

The Interstate U-2200's (Flooded wet cells) were originally hooked to both house and prosine, but later just the house, and then again back to house and prosine, (After the AGM's died) took several deep discharges (i mean lights would not) and still lasted nine years.

Guess who is NOT sold on AGM.

[mque]

Thank you everyone. Great input. I believe I have all the information I need at this point.

Mike

[TQ60]

Do not need a special charger...

True and false...

The AGM is a VRLA battery and if abused to where the gas pressure pops a valve you loose material which results in loss of performance of the battery.

The charger needs to have a very stable output voltage that will insure the float voltage is EXACTLY what the SPECIFIC battery needs.

Some need 2.25 VPC while others need 2.29 VPC and with most this voltage is temperature related thus the suggestion for temperature sensing.

The happy place is 72 to 77 degrees and outside of that voltage requirements change.

Above 90 degrees and perm damage happens.

Floaded have same problems but with them you can replace the lost water.

Lastly Lifelines are great batteries so you should get great performance.

Other commercial batteries like C&D are great too but have had some past quality issues.

These batteries are in an air conditioned room with a dc plant designed and adjusted to their specific needs and they still failed.

So before transitioning from flooded batteries to AGM/VRLA one needs to insure all of the supporting equipment is compatable and correct voltages for the batteries then be sure good quality batteries are selected then be certian the voltage is what the mfg data sheet specifies.

Then the maintenance still needs to be done.

[terry735001]

Originally Posted by TQ60

Do not need a special charger...

True and false...

The AGM is a VRLA battery and if abused to where the gas pressure pops a valve you loose material which results in loss of performance of the battery.

The charger needs to have a very stable output voltage that will insure the float voltage is EXACTLY what the SPECIFIC battery needs.

Some need 2.25 VPC while others need 2.29 VPC and with most this voltage is temperature related thus the suggestion for temperature sensing.

The happy place is 72 to 77 degrees and outside of that voltage requirements change.

Above 90 degrees and perm damage happens.

Floaded have same problems but with them you can replace the lost water.

Lastly Lifelines are great batteries so you should get great performance.

Other commercial batteries like C&D are great too but have had some past quality issues.

These batteries are in an air conditioned room with a dc plant designed and adjusted to their specific needs and they still failed.

So before transitioning from flooded batteries to AGM/VRLA one needs to insure all of the supporting equipment is compatable and correct voltages for the batteries then be sure good quality batteries are selected then be certian the voltage is what the mfg data sheet specifies.

Then the maintenance still needs to be done.

all so one more thing to keep in mind and think about is
IS this set of battery's all so wired to your motors alternator or gen set alternator

as older alternators do not like them and as seen up on top of this post can start a fire

there are upgrades that you can get to replace the ECM part of your alternator to see and work well with AGMs

[TQ60]

Alternator is part of the support system.

Many are adjustable do adjust to 13.6 volts ( 2.25 vpc used but dependent on battery) measured at the battery with engine at high idle.

[terry735001]

Originally Posted by TQ60

Alternator is part of the support system.

Many are adjustable do adjust to 13.6 volts ( 2.25 vpc used but dependent on battery) measured at the battery with engine at high idle.

yeah but units like this can help

Power Accessories | Xantrex Alternator Regulator | Xantrex

there are many and some setup for just AGMs

[TQ60]

Wow...learn something every day...

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by mque

Looking at replacing my 5 year old interstate 6v flooded house batteries with AGM's. does anyone have any experience with this or battery recommendations? Thank you

mque

I have some experience wit AGM's. I used them in my last coach as an upgrade. My Xantrex charger was supposed to be AGM friendly but it cooked the 3 of them! They were Lifeline Group 34 as I recall. I had to disconnect the temperature probe to get the charging voltage to behave. Xantrex said my inverter, 2 years old, was a throwaway. . That conversion was and expensive one.

On this coach I have 6 NAPA 12V AGM's and a Magnum 2800 W true sine wave inverter. This setup is rock solid. I can run the microwave, make coffee and still be off the generator for 4 hours running the lights, tv and residential refrigerator. Well, I did upgrade most of the lights to LED's which I know helps.

I see one contribute recommending laying AGM's on their side. Though this is permissible it is not recommended. I will shorten the life of the battery according to what I read on the Lifeline website documentation.

To sum it all up: If your inverter does not have a AGM setting and is not approved by the AGM battery manufacturer don't use it on AGM's.

As far as 6V vs 12V strings go? There are a thousand opinions out there about this. Do the math on the amp hour ratings. If a 12V battery is rated at 100 AH and two 6 V at 100 AH each you still have 100 AH of service from either string.

This site explains it well and dispels myths and rumors: Which is better? Two 6v or Two 12v Marine Batteries

AGM batteries like to be discharged and recharged at a heavy rate. Not so for flooded. AGM's deliver more usable power longer the flooded of the same spec rating. Sounds strange but it is true. I've seen it happen and was astounded.

Lithium ion batteries are starting to make headway. Again, special chargers and conditions must be considered. And these too are $$.

Now you really have something to think about.

Rick Y

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I have some experience wit AGM's. I used them in my last coach as an upgrade. My Xantrex charger was supposed to be AGM friendly but it cooked the 3 of them! They were Lifeline Group 34 as I recall. I had to disconnect the temperature probe to get the charging voltage to behave. Xantrex said my inverter, 2 years old, was a throwaway. . That conversion was and expensive one.

On this coach I have 6 NAPA 12V AGM's and a Magnum 2800 W true sine wave inverter. This setup is rock solid. I can run the microwave, make coffee and still be off the generator for 4 hours running the lights, tv and residential refrigerator. Well, I did upgrade most of the lights to LED's which I know helps.

I see one contribute recommending laying AGM's on their side. Though this is permissible it is not recommended. I will shorten the life of the battery according to what I read on the Lifeline website documentation.

To sum it all up: If your inverter does not have a AGM setting and is not approved by the AGM battery manufacturer don't use it on AGM's.

As far as 6V vs 12V strings go? There are a thousand opinions out there about this. Do the math on the amp hour ratings. If a 12V battery is rated at 100 AH and two 6 V at 100 AH each you still have 100 AH of service from either string.

This site explains it well and dispels myths and rumors: Which is better? Two 6v or Two 12v Marine Batteries

AGM batteries like to be discharged and recharged at a heavy rate. Not so for flooded. AGM's deliver more usable power longer the flooded of the same spec rating. Sounds strange but it is true. I've seen it happen and was astounded.

Lithium ion batteries are starting to make headway. Again, special chargers and conditions must be considered. And these too are $$.

Now you really have something to think about.

Rick Y

Rick, I do have one of my 6V AGM's laying on its side but, after reading this thread, I will work to get it upright. I just need to get one longer cable so I can move it around a bit.

I also have the Magnum 2800W PSW inverter and while I have Full River AGM batteries, both Magnum and Full River advised me to use the Lifeline setting. Only time will tell if what I spent on the batteries and the cables to wire them up was worth it.

I did read the 6v vs 12v comments you provided. I do wonder why all electric golf cars come configured with strings of 6v batteries?

[wa8yxm]

I answered that "Why strings of six volt batteries" question already. (in part)
Here is the other part: They do not ALL come that way, some have GC-12s in them (Golf Car 12 volt) instead of GC-2 (Six volt)

But the primary reason.. Back in the 50s and before the six volt battery was the defacto standard in motor vehicles, My dad's Buick had six volt (both of them) the farm tractors,, Identical six volt, Car radios were six volt, and many positive ground I might add.

Sometime around 1960 they went to 12 volt, but at this time the six volt was the single most popular automotive battery.. AND the foot print was what is now a GC-2. So when they started making electric golf cars,, They used the battery that was easily found, Said six volt.

Today the six volt GC-2 is still the single most popular lead acid battery, However the reason has changed,, Instead of being used in cars, tractors, and most everything with an electric starter, and thus being chosen for Golf Cars.

it is because of the Golf Cars that it is still the most popular.

(In short what went around came around). But it is that popularity that keeps folks turning to it. If you make 12 volt batteries teen every so often you have to shut the line down and re-tool for a different size, this costs money.

but the GC-2 line never closes.