Inverter Questions!

[IND2SLC]

Hello all,
My 1995 Dynasty has a Freedom 20 inverter which, until earlier today, seemed to work fine. However, the "Battery" LED is now flashing. Not sure what this means or how to resolve it. Running the gen for front a/c and fridge while driving, they both seem fine. I have not yet replaced the PO's house batteries, which are 2 1000 CCA marine cranking batteries of unknown vintage. I'm sure they're at least 5 years old, and shouldn't be house batteries anyways.
Anyone have any ideas about this light?

Thanks!!

[Ray,IN]

Per the owners manual the red light indicates a low battery condition. You are correct, wrong battery type anyway, replace coach batteries with deep cycle batteries.

reference:http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Dis...nersManual.pdf

[IND2SLC]

Thanks Ray! I have really no experience with any of this house electrical. Would a bad battery cause or allow diminished amperage to run a/c, etc even with gen running? The bottom DC Amp light on the panel is on, 10 amp or below. Incindentally, the voltage gauge on the dash has been showing about 11V abkut the same time as this cropped up. Engine starts right up though, so does generator.

[jacwjames]

The AC units run on 120 volt but do require 12 volt for the thermostat/control.



If the batteries are bad it will result in problems. I was on a trip in late June, up until then not any problems but then started showing a fault on the inverter panel. Luckily I was near a Sam's club and they had 4 batteries in stock and actually installed for me. $560 later I was a happy camper.

[IND2SLC]

In a sudden plot twist, it seems that all is well when the engine is off. This battery condition only appears while driving (whether gen is on or off). Both house batteries get very hot and leak a little acid at the top. Sitting in a parking lot, just gen no engine, it's all normal. Now I'm really confused.

[Persistent]

Originally Posted by IND2SLC

Thanks Ray! I have really no experience with any of this house electrical. Would a bad battery cause or allow diminished amperage to run a/c, etc even with gen running? The bottom DC Amp light on the panel is on, 10 amp or below. Incindentally, the voltage gauge on the dash has been showing about 11V abkut the same time as this cropped up. Engine starts right up though, so does generator.

Generator running provides 120 volts to A/C and battery charging to house battery bank.

RV starting use Chassis battery bank.
Generator may use Chassis bank to start. Many RV generators start from house bank.

House battery bank provides 12 volts to inverter/converter/charger when generator is not running. Some inverters provide additional A/C when generator is running.

"Incindentally, the voltage gauge on the dash has been showing about 11V"

11.0 volts on a battery bank is fully discharged. Charger is not working or has exceeded its capacity trying to charge shorted battery. Most likely switch somewhere is "off" or wire is loose or corroded.

RV A/C's often use 12 volts for thermostat controls. If voltage drops further, A/C controls may stop working and shut A/C "off".

"Engine starts right up though, so does generator."

Is the 11.0 volts a reading from the chassis or house battery bank. I don't expect the RV engine would start easily from a chassis bank testing at 11.0 volts.

List of possible causes:

• 12 volt house battery disconnect switch near entry door may be "off".
• Solenoid controlled by disconnect switch has failed.
• Loose or corroded connector anywhere in the 12 volt system.
• 12 volt house battery disconnect in or near the battery bay is "off".
• One or more batteries in house battery bank has a partial short internally.
• EMS is not set correctly.

"Would a bad battery cause or allow diminished amperage to run a/c, etc even with gen running? "

No. Highly unlikely.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!

[153stars]

You have a diode battery isolator/combiner, the alternator is cooking those bad batteries. The invertor is probably a bit smarter and not trying to charge them. Are they dry? I was able to use 4 of 6v golf cart batts from Sam's in my tray but had to cut rear turned to inside bend off.Its about 1/2" wide. The OEM size deep cycle batts are like small semi batts and difficult if not impossible to find in deep cycle. PO of mine bought and installed cranking batts as well.I have the 95 Crown Royale which is a Dynasty. All I needed was two small jumpers to put 6v pairs in series ,the parallel jumpers worked out fine. I removed top tray sheet metal battery retainer for pair of group 31 size and used the big ones as cranking batteries.
If you don't plan to camp without power two golf cart would also be fine.

[IND2SLC]

I've tested all batteries with a voltmeter just now. The engine battery, which is the correct one for the Dynasty and about 5 months old, shows 11.9V with engine off, 11.8 when running (probably a clue). The house batteries, both of which are "marine cranking batteries" and not deep cycle and of unkown age, show 13.3v all the time, although they are hot and leaking acid.
When engine is off, the inverter panel shows 40-50 amps and the "battery" light is off, but the ususl "DC input" and "inv/chrg" are illuminated. If I start the engine, the inverter panel shows an amperage drop to 30 or so. Hit the accelerator pedal, and it goes right to the bottom, less than 10, and the battery light on the panel comes on. Shut the engine off, and it all goes back to normal after about 30 seconds.
To me, it seems that the alternator is failing and the engine pulls extra current from the house batteries, causing the 10A and "battery" lights. I have no dash warning lights, just the dash voltage gauge for engine battery showing 11-12V. Is this plausible?

[RichardE]

Good diagnostics.
Quick and dirty check for alternator is to measure chassis batteries with engine off. Then crank engine and measure again. You should see a rise in voltage if alternator is working.

A possibility is your engine battery is bad. The alternator reads its regulation voltage from the engine battery. If the battery is bad the alternator is charging madly to try to raise it. That charge is also going into the house batteries through the isolator and overcharging them.

Very important to diagnose those properly to find out what is bad. Allowing this to go on often leads to multiple failures in the 12V system.

[chuckftboy]

11.9 volts on a 12 volt engine battery is very low. Ether the battery isn't being charged or your meter is faulty.

[jeff0210]

Your inverter should have a battery temp censer. Make sure it is installed correctly. Your inverter is not made to charge Cranking batteries. Deep cycle batteries are made differently. Probably why you are boiling over. Get to a Sam's club or a Interstate battery dealer and get the correct batteries. Remember 6 bolt batteries need wired differently than 12 volts. Check to make sure whom ever does the install they have done so correctly.

[Persistent]

"... The engine battery, which is the correct one for the Dynasty and about 5 months old, shows 11.9V with engine off, 11.8 when running (probably a clue). ..."

11.9 and 11.8 are a little lower than 50% state of charge. Voltage should rise slowly as engine charges them. Given batteries have recently been replaced, they are not likely defective yet.

• Battery disconnect near these chassis batteries and it may be "off"
• Loose or corroded connections.

Since the chassis batteries were recently changed, loose connections are a logical cause.
Defective alternator is probably not the cause, since it over charges the house batteries while the chassis batteries are still discharged. More likely the chassis batteries are not being charged due to connection issues.

"... The house batteries, both of which are "marine cranking batteries" and not deep cycle and of unkown age, show 13.3v all the time, although they are hot and leaking acid. ..."

The heat and spitting are classic symptoms of over charging. If they only over charge while driving, then I expect the voltage is way to high from the alternator, maybe above 14.4 volts while driving.

Test:
Start by finding "static" voltage. Stop all charging and discharging of both battery banks for a while.

• Shore power disconnected
• Generator "off"
• Turn all RV appliances "off". Water heater, A/C, fans, chargers, refer, furnace, everything that can be turned "off"
• Leave entry door disconnect "on"
• Turn inverter function off
• Turn engine "off"
• Wait 4 hours.

Measure voltage at battery terminals of house battery bank, then engine battery bank, then at alternator.

Find engine charging voltages:

• Start engine
• Run engine a little above idle or drive some distance
• After 10 minutes measure the three voltages again

Voltage on chassis batteries should slowly raise to 14.4 volts. If they are deeply discharged, it may take a while. Run engine longer if necessary.
House batteries should not raise until engine batteries are higher and should not raise above chassis batteries.

Of course, if engine battery voltage does not raise, they are not charging. In this case you may see alternator voltage high and chassis batteries staying low.

"... When engine is off, the inverter panel shows 40-50 amps and the "battery" light is off, but the ususl "DC input" and "inv/chrg" are illuminated. If I start the engine, the inverter panel shows an amperage drop to 30 or so. Hit the accelerator pedal, and it goes right to the bottom, less than 10, and the battery light on the panel comes on. Shut the engine off, and it all goes back to normal after about 30 seconds. ..."

I am not sure how your inverter/converter/charger is intended to behave or what the "inverter panel" readings mean. If the panel is showing charging current from shore power or generator and it stops when engine alternator provides charging, this behavior may mean the alternator is charging the house batteries and not the chassis batteries.

Disconnect shore power and shut off generator power and see what engine alternator does by itself. See test procedure above.

"To me, it seems that the alternator is failing and the engine pulls extra current from the house batteries, causing the 10A and "battery" lights. I have no dash warning lights, just the dash voltage gauge for engine battery showing 11-12V. Is this plausible?"

More likely engine is charging house batteries excessively and not charging chassis batteries.

[TOM GUY]

Hi guys,

Just a quick note; put the meter on AC and check voltage across the alternator. If it shows any reading at all, the alternator has a bad diode.

That will cook the batteries quickly.

Just a note.

Tom

[IND2SLC]

I just started the engine and watched the inverter control panel. When I raised eng rpm, the "dc volts" indicator went up, and the "battery" indicator came on. I'm not sure whether there is any battery disconnect switch that would prevent the chassis battery from charging.

I am moving about 1600 miles away, and towing with my Dynasty. I've never had any of these problems before 2 nights ago, when the trailer lights were found to not work properly and Uhaul sent a "technician" out at 1AM. I'm stopped near Peoria, IL until this can get resolved I'm voluntarily stranding myself.