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Old 03-29-2018, 11:30 AM   #29
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I've got a little time flying the B-1 as well as the B-52, lots of KC-135 time, so I have been on both sides of the boom. Design transfer rate with four refueling pumps running on the tanker is roughly 1000 gallons per minute. Fighters and such couldn't take it that fast so used less pumps. Key is there is a design requirement.
M/Hs are more like the builder tries to do it right, but you get what you get, and the users try to find workarounds.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JPO1980 View Post
I've got a little time flying the B-1 as well as the B-52, lots of KC-135 time, so I have been on both sides of the boom. Design transfer rate with four refueling pumps running on the tanker is roughly 1000 gallons per minute. Fighters and such couldn't take it that fast so used less pumps. Key is there is a design requirement.
M/Hs are more like the builder tries to do it right, but you get what you get, and the users try to find workarounds.
I think in the word in this situation is FLAW.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:36 PM   #31
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First off, not all aircraft require air refueling. Don't know of any in commercial use, though the military has added capability to various 747s, 707 models for sure.

Added capability comes at a price- weight,complexity and cost.

The first air refueling they dropped a hose over the side of one aircraft to another below.

Probe and drogue works but can't get the flow rates like a boom.

A fighter can't carry the fuel that a heavy does, nor does it burn it at the same rate, although AB rates are impressive. You want a fighter to take 1000 gal/min? Put bigger heavier fuel line from receptacle to tank. Adds weight/cost. What you gonna trade off?


Why do truck diesel pumps have larger nozzles, faster rates than the regular auto pumps? Trade offs

That's why I drive a used 36 Journey vs a new top of the line coach. Tradeoffs.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:40 PM   #32
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Haven't seen any motorhome with inflight refueling capability!
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:03 PM   #33
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GTTD & K...

I hear ya. This is our first long trip with the MH and as our sig line says we are first timers. And you can also see from our signature line that we're running a diesel pusher. It has a 100 gal tank and I like to fill up when it's around 1/4 full...that's 75 gallons of fuel and it takes a long time! Over 20 minutes at one very slow pump in Texas! MH nozzle is too horizontal to hold nozzles in. They fall right out. I understand fueling safety - yes big motor is turned off, but i'd like a little freedom to put cap back on my additive bottles and maybe put them away, etc. Don't think that's unreasonable. Thanks for the replies.
Well you did ask. If you put additives in and need to recap the bottle and put it away do it before you refuel. It doesn't take much effort to stand there with your hand on the pump nozzle to make sure it doesn't fall out.
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:17 PM   #34
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two things at work here: at least as it concerns the original 'refueling issue' topic...

RV manufacturers are making use of a prebuilt chassis, so the original design of the fuel ports are from them, but the RV factory builds a house 'around' the fuel ports, creating the reason why the port is 'farther' into the vehicle than normal. It may not work well with some fueling heads. I doubt that there's much the manufacturer can do since they are somewhat restricted by what they are starting with. RV manufacturers also have little sway with the companies that build refueling stations and their equipment, even if that was any option for a solution.

Fueling equipment manufacturers build their equipment to the normal spec of most 'car' type vehicles on the retail side, and 'semi truck' equipment on the commercial side, but very doubtful that they have the same concern for the relatively 'few' RVs on the road.

If the fuel head fits, great, it's exactly what you'd expect. If it doesn't hold itself into the fuel neck of your vehicle, though, it's aggravating, but probably not enough to be on the radar of any fuel equipment manufacturers.

We've had the same issue, but interestingly it's not very often, and certainly not at very many fueling stations. It's probably due to a specific fuel equipment manufacturers 'design', but who knows. I don't 'like' having to be chained to holding the fuel head the whole time, either, but it does happen, and I guess there's just not much you can do about it. : /


unless you know someone in the fueling equipment industry!
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:43 PM   #35
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Usually have to stand there holding it for a 15 minute fill!! I've tried turning the nozzle upside down and that works but it a bit precarious.
My experience has been that the auto-cutoff on fuel filler nozzles is an annoying variable, in that they're not always dependable, and they work, or they don't.

As a result, I always monitor the fill-up and stand ready to manually intervene if something goes awry. It is what it is, and I don't need diesel spewing all over the side of my coach, which is a possibility if I'm not there to watch what's happening.

I don't see any advantage in the "upside-down" business you refer to. A consideration that DOES enter into a diesel fueling is the foaming that happens when filling at a high rate - the auto-shut-off will occur before the tank is full, due to the foam, and it's necessary to let the foaming subside to permit topping off. One simply has to deal with that as best one can, using repeated filling to get to the top.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:16 PM   #36
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Well,
First off, just because the OP takes as long as they say, doesn't really say what nozzle they're using. The reason or reasons, have been talked about many times. And the primary ones are the fact that the fuel routing tubing, quite often has bends and off level designs that impedes a quality flow of fuel. And, some tanks are not vented as well as others. We've owned our present rig, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the 330HP CAT for almost seven years and, it has fuel fill openings on both sides of the rig.

Depending on certain conditions, ours is also a pain in the a$$ to fill and, can take almost equally as long to fill, even when starting at 1/2 a tank. Click-stop, click-stop, click-stop is all I get sometimes. At others, it will fill without too much issue. I've taken such steps as, dropping the air bags and, using the jacks on one side to raise the coach so fueling would be more downhill. Or, I've taken the time to drive up on my ramps, to try and get the same effect. Either way didn't make one bit of difference 'cause it still burped on me, time and time again. And no, I do not have any "kinks" in any of the filler tubing or bends. And, while I don't make it a habit of filling at truck stop for my own reasons, I do occasionally manage to pull into a regular station with the extra large filler spout. I hate those. They, quite often, are hard to regulate for slower flowing fuel, especially when you have pain in the a$$ fuel acceptance system.

As for nozzles not staying "hooked" into the opening. Well, that all depends on the design of each opening and, what kind of lips are designed into them that will take a purchase on any given nozzle. The sharper the lip or edge, the better the chance of it holding a nozzle, without assistance from the owner. If the design is more blunt or rounded, the less possibilities of it holding a nozzle without assistance.
Scott
This is just an idea or maybe a suggestion to stop the burping. You have a fill tube on each side. I assume you mean you have a single tank with access to fill it from each side.
Have you ever tried removing the cap on the opposite side you are using to fill the tank to add some venting to the tank?
If this works, I'm a hero. If not, well you tell me.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:30 AM   #37
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"Md11fpilot".......Now that this has gone in six directions, if you can't keep the nozzle in by turning or angling it, then just add a small eye hook or loop inside the fuel door opening and keep a bungee in the bay near the fuel fill. You can quickly hook the nozzle while fueling. My Monaco had a side to side tank with large metal pipe ends at both sides. It was just a big hole. Most often, I had to insert the nozzle so that the hose was pulling back away from the trigger to hold it in place.

My Freightliner has an automotive style opening, just larger. It hasn't been too problematic. On my coach, I run the Silverleaf computer program and know within about 3-5 gallons how much I will take. As I go about doing things while the coach is fueling, I work my way back to the pump when I get within about seven gallons. I can hear the sound of the fuel filling change as I get within about a gallon. I slow down the pump and shut it off on the first click. If a station has paper towels, I also take a couple and wad them up under the nozzle handle before I start pumping.

During a 40-50 gallon fill up, I can add the appropriate amount of OptiLube additive, stretch my legs by doing a walk around the coach and toad and hand my wife the first receipt from the fuel pump.

I've watched some make fueling quite an event.....not me, I like to get in get out and be on my way.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:53 AM   #38
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I was at Costco yesterday and they have a sign on the pumps indicating the proper and improper position for the fueling nozzle. The sign had a big RED X over the nozzle at a angle or upside down in the fueling port.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:04 PM   #39
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No issues here. With the price of fuel and the propensity of the fuel to splash back I have no issues with standing there until the tank is full. We fuel at the truck pumps so the large nozzle fills the tank very quickly.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:47 PM   #40
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Haven't seen any motorhome with inflight refueling capability!
Man,
Wouldn't that be a kick in the A$$!!! You're cruising along, freeway conditions are ultra light (what a dream) and, a tanker pulls up along side. An LED sign is flashed on the tankers passenger side window, "Request fuel"?

You, as the RV driver, acknowledge: "Yes". At that point, a radio guided nozzle emerges from the side of the tanker. At the same time, the fuel inlet door auto-opens on the drivers side of your coach. The tankers nozzles is radio guided slowly, right to the inlet on your coach. Once the connection is made, the fuel begins to flow. Auto-venting takes place. You fill for 3 minutes and, you're topped off. The nozzle auto-retracts, your fuel door auto-closes, and, you put your credit card up to the window of the RV. The tanker's reading machine, picks up your credit card from the distance and, bills your card. The window in the tanker: "Thank you, have a nice day" and, he moves on.

No need for trying to snake around all those Flying J, Pilot, or any other pain in the a$$ fueling stations. What a dream.
Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by LETMGROW View Post
This is just an idea or maybe a suggestion to stop the burping. You have a fill tube on each side. I assume you mean you have a single tank with access to fill it from each side.
Have you ever tried removing the cap on the opposite side you are using to fill the tank to add some venting to the tank?
If this works, I'm a hero. If not, well you tell me.
Lynn
Lynn,
Yep, I did try that quite a few years ago. Guess what, I had one hell of a mess on the other side of the coach 'cause the speed at which my tank was filling at the time (really, really rare), and the fact that there regular vent was not being use due to the "NO CAP" situation on the other side, that diesel just sped up the opposite side fuel filler and spewed out all over the island. NOT GOOD! So that was a one-time experiment.
Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigd9 View Post
I was at Costco yesterday and they have a sign on the pumps indicating the proper and improper position for the fueling nozzle. The sign had a big RED X over the nozzle at a angle or upside down in the fueling port.
Hey Bigd9
The problem with that is, there are quite a few times when for some odd reason, the nozzle MUST be held at some precarious angle so the fuel, even my gas GMC 1500 needs this sometimes, can flow without the click-stop,click-stop situation arrizing. I'm sure that most of us prefer to just insert the nozzle, in the correct manor and all goes well. But, sometimes, the fuel gods just don't permit that.
Scott
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Old 03-30-2018, 01:58 PM   #41
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The reason I noticed the sign on the pump, was because the Costco attendant was walking around checking the CC readers for skimmers pointed it out to me. My Honda was parked on the left side of the island where the fueling hose had to cross past the rear of the Honda to reach the gas cap located on the drivers side. With the tension on the hose from being stretched the gas nozzle was in the pipe but at an angle. He asked me to straighten the nozzle out and pointed to the sign.

He was nice about it but it was the first time I ever knew it was not allowed.
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