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10-05-2024, 05:20 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mayer MN
Posts: 167
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Leece Neville Alternator Replacement
Good afternoon folks. I have a 2008 holiday rambler Scepter 43 foot coach with a 400 ISL Cummins. My Leece Neville alternator has been giving me issues and I would like to replace it with a Delco Remy 28SI that I have read a lot of others have done. My current alternator has a Duvac system and includes a large post for positive, a large post for ground, and three smaller wires. One appears to run to the ignition, one is for the remote sense, and I’m not sure what the third is for, but I’m assuming maybe the alternator light on the dash? If I go with the new Delco Remybalternator, will it be necessary to use all three of the other wires as well? It appears the Delco Remy doesn’t require all the same wires as my current alternator. Also, the current alternator is 160 amp, would it be wise to upgrade to a 200 amp or is that not necessary? Thank you for any input you can give.
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10-05-2024, 05:36 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Bohemia NY
Posts: 718
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Leece Neville Alternator upgrade
I'll throw a few thoughts out there. A 160 A/H alternator is really not adequate for most any RV, especially if also using it to charge house batteries along with other house connected loads. That size alternator can be stressed in most any modern day fully equipped pickup truck.
That said, the only reason it has survived at all is robustness of the Leece-Nevill alternator with the combination of the DUVAC system with the diode block arrangement providing serious current limitation to the house batteries. The Delco Remy while it offers significant power production and energy efficiencies will not take as much abuse. The made in China re-pops can really disappoint.
The alternator mounting is somewhat of a standard. You can probably bolt on 270 amps or more. Take this as an opportunity. Re you looking to upgrade the house battery system? Lithium? Maybe get rid of the diode set up and go to auto charge control relays. You may need to upgrade some battery wiring.
If you want some help, p-mail me.
d23haynes57@hotmail.com
dennis-vw-service@outlook.com
__________________
Dennis
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
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10-05-2024, 07:32 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,555
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Are you sure you have a DUVAC system on a 2008? I thought that was several years after the switch to relay based isolators, like IRD, BIRD etc. In any case, the 28SI includes remote sense, which is ALL that the DUVAC alternator is. The system includes a diode isolator, which I'm questioning if you have. The Delco does not NEED an ignition excite wire like the LN does, but a battery fail light probably won't work without the ignition hooked up. Hooking it up requires a resistor or diode to allow the engine to shut off with the key, typically.
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10-05-2024, 07:50 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Bohemia NY
Posts: 718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafariBen
Are you sure you have a DUVAC system on a 2008? I thought that was several years after the switch to relay based isolators, like IRD, BIRD etc. In any case, the 28SI includes remote sense, which is ALL that the DUVAC alternator is. The system includes a diode isolator, which I'm questioning if you have. The Delco does not NEED an ignition excite wire like the LN does, but a battery fail light probably won't work without the ignition hooked up. Hooking it up requires a resistor or diode to allow the engine to shut off with the key, typically.
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Yes, I have that system. I actually purchased the pices to upgrade to a voltage control relay set up using this.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/762..._-_12V_DC_500A
However, the diode set up is working so well with the lithium house battery upgrade I'm considering leaving it.
__________________
Dennis
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
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10-06-2024, 02:50 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36,525
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Something is amiss here. SafariBen was asking the OP if HE had a diode based system, not d23haynes57.
Does you, d23haynes57, know for a fact what the original poster, brianpr, has in his rig ?
In any case a Delco alternator is a good upgrade from the LN.
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10-06-2024, 04:15 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mayer MN
Posts: 167
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I am pretty sure I Have the duvac system but yes also have the BIRD system. Here is a photo of my current set up.
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10-06-2024, 06:16 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 36,525
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The Duvac system is only needed with diode based battery isolation systems. The alternator output went to the isolator center terminal and was split from there.
Battery isolators don't allow battery voltage to backfeed to the alternators internal voltage regulator. Without feedback, the alternator will overcharge or not charge at all. The Duvac is a fancy name for a battery voltage sense wire from the chassis battery.
Rigs with isolation/bridging solenoids leave the alternator output on the chassis battery, mostly right to the starter motor battery cable. The alternator can sense battery voltage on that wire.
When the BIRD closes the isolation solenoid, it's connecting the chassis battery to the house batteries so they charge together.
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10-06-2024, 07:05 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mayer MN
Posts: 167
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So since I have the BIRD system I can use a non-duvac type alternator and it will charge both sets of batteries? Thank you
__________________
Brian & Brenda
2008 Holiday Rambler Scepter 43' PDQ, 400ISL 8.9L
2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
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10-07-2024, 09:54 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,555
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In my understanding, the DUVAC SYSTEM includes a diode isolator, otherwise it's a relay based system. A Leece Neville DUVAC alternator is no different than the same size LN alternator without the DUVAC sticker, the alternator only needs remote sense to function with a DUVAC system/diode isolator, and all larger LN alternators have remote sense, all Delco 28SI have remote sense also. The Delco has some differences in how it is set up to function and how it has to be wired to preserve all functions, but those are not related to the DUVAC function, that is simply a way of wiring a diode isolator with remote sense alternator.
In your alternator pic, the three studs in a row in the center are the wild three phase AC output direct off the windings before the rectifier, the one wire there was the tachometer feed, I believe that goes to the R on a 28SI, the remote sense is the same, and the ignition feed wire will need a diode or possibly resistor will work for the Delco. But double check those specifics. The Delco does not need any of those wires hooked up to function, unless there is a diode isolator, then it needs the remote sense hooked up to boost the voltage to compensate for the drop across the diodes.
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10-07-2024, 10:33 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 10,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
The Duvac system is only needed with diode based battery isolation systems. The alternator output went to the isolator center terminal and was split from there.
Battery isolators don't allow battery voltage to backfeed to the alternators internal voltage regulator. Without feedback, the alternator will overcharge or not charge at all. The Duvac is a fancy name for a battery voltage sense wire from the chassis battery.
Rigs with isolation/bridging solenoids leave the alternator output on the chassis battery, mostly right to the starter motor battery cable. The alternator can sense battery voltage on that wire.
When the BIRD closes the isolation solenoid, it's connecting the chassis battery to the house batteries so they charge together.
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twinboat,
Our coach, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP also has the 160A Leese Neville 2628LC Duvac alternator and it's NOT a diode based battery isolator system. There's no BIRD, or diode system of any type. It's a Trombetta relay/solenoid system. And to the one that commented that a 160A alternator is not appropriate for RV's, well, mine lasted more than 20 years and over 115,000 miles before it finally gave up. And to the best of my undersstanding, it was my fault that it did give up. Long story but in short, I was powering up my inverter on the way home from a very, VERY cold night and was powering a small 15A space heater and that was simply too much for that old girl. A new one, of the same exact specs has been in there now for at least 6 months and it working flawlessly.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
2018 Goldwing Tour DCT Airbag
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
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10-07-2024, 11:03 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mayer MN
Posts: 167
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So to be sure I am understanding correctly before I make a purchase and hook it up: I have a BIRD system so I dont need a diode isolator? I just connect my 2 main wires to the positive and ground, and then the small wires for the tach, ignition, and remote sense? Thats it? Thank you
__________________
Brian & Brenda
2008 Holiday Rambler Scepter 43' PDQ, 400ISL 8.9L
2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
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10-07-2024, 11:43 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,555
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Correct, if your system was functioning with the LN alternator, then it will function with the 28SI. The tach and remote sense are the same on both. The ignition wire that went to the LN is not needed by the Delco, without it hooked up, the alternator warning lights may not function, with it hooked up WITHOUT the proper diode or resistor, you may not be able to shut off the engine.
The DUVAC sticker on the alternator is just a sticker, LN made the same alternator with "remote sense" labels on that terminal, and they are the same alternator, same function. The SYSTEM includes a diode isolator.
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10-07-2024, 12:03 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Mayer MN
Posts: 167
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Great thanks so much!!!
__________________
Brian & Brenda
2008 Holiday Rambler Scepter 43' PDQ, 400ISL 8.9L
2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
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10-07-2024, 01:47 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,486
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BLUF: Take the time to really understand how your 12V charging system works and plan accordingly.
I think a lot of this has to do with how the jumpers on the alternator are configured as well as the specifics of the 12V system on your coach.
I have a 1999 Beaver, and it was set up with a LN alternator, a diode isolator, a BIRD set to house battery priority, and the generator was set up to start off the coach batteries.
Bought the coach in 2010 and immediately had 12V problems, which I struggled through until the alternator gave up the ghost in 2017, and when trying to start the coach after a night of charging, and using the Big-ass-relay, 3 of the house batteries blew up, prompting a complete re-look at the 12V system.
I don't believe it had the sense line installed at all. House batteries were never fully charged. Because they rarely got to the BIRD cut-over voltage, the coach batteries were rarely fully charged. When I went to replace the alternator its mfg date was several years newer than the coach - hmmmm this must have happened before.
Bought the Delco alternator and had to find a switched line to excite it. Ran the sense line to the chassis batteries. Bought a higher capacity isolator. Tossed the BIRD follower charger and bought a different one and set it up for chassis priority.
I also bought #0 welding cable and completely re-made all the 12V high current wiring, and put a couple of Anderson plugs in so I can quickly disconnect both sets of batteries. No issues since, and last set of batteries lasted six years.
__________________
'99 Beaver Monterey 30', Cat 3126/300
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