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Old 12-08-2018, 02:10 PM   #29
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Read your manual and follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Each coach is different.

If you don't have the operators manual you can find it online and download.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvbdsl View Post
FYI my leveling system (Valid Air leveling) has at least two sensors (not one) for leveling (front and rear) and does figure out twist and will prevent any further adjustments if it detects it.
This is direct from the manual

"Manual Mode Notes:
If the Leveling System detects an excess amount of twist in the
vehicle frame during the manual adjustments, any further actions that may
cause more twist are not permitted by the leveling controller."

That being said, not all leveling system are the same or have the same features.

Chris
"Valid utilizes leading-edge accelerometer technology to measure along 3 separate axes (across front and rear axles, and longitudinally) of the vehicle chassis to check for both level and twist and then accurately levels the vehicle."

Yup, thats what I believe is needed to address the issue.

Slide equipped users chime in: What system do you have, and does it have one or multiple locations of where the leveling sensors are located? Do you think your system address chassis torque?

I know mine doesn't. HWS.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:59 PM   #31
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Triple H

I like your steps for arriving and leaving. Think I will try it next time.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav L View Post
Most leveling systems use one location to determine "level". My MA has the sensor towards the front of the coach in-between the frame rails.

I believe that still will allow the vehicle chassis to be twisted as the rear isn't necessarily level.

I have built a second sensor for placement in the rear and will be doing some testing when it gets a bit warmer. Ultimately the sensor will be in my "RV Automation" software" that we are working on.

when the chassis is twisted, the opening for the slide is then no longer square. That allows the slide to rub against the tight corner which causes damage.

The physics of why NOT level before opening the slides has not been described (to me) in a mechanical way sufficient for my understanding. Theories suggest that the chassis is "not under strain" when on it's air bags. Which I would agree with if the surface the RV is on isn't twisted (corners higher than the other corner).

I think it's less important to be level as it is to be square (within reason). ie: the front can be higher than the rear a bit.

Officially, follow the instructions in your manual, especially since the RV lack the instrumentation to know that the vehicle isn't twisted. Many manuals require that the operator physically inspects the "Gaps" around the slide to ensure they are square before moving the slide. This is a way to determine if the chassis is torqued. The longer the slide (FWS), the more critical the torque issue is.
Sounds like you're trying to figure a way to prevent the 4-valve leveling systems from twisting the chassis. My 2015 Itasca with Swintek 4-valve, 4 jack leveling system had a sensor in the control box up front and a second one located on a stabilizer bar between the two rear jacks at the rear just for that purpose. How well it worked is questionable.


My current coach has a Power Gear leveling system. Both my air suspension and leveling systems are 3-valve systems and balance the coach at 3 points under the coach (each side at the axle on the rear and center in front)resulting in no twist on the chassis. Two sensors, right & left, front & rear is all that's needed. The owners manual says to put the slides out after leveling in one place and to put the slides out while on the air suspension in another place. So I guess either is accepted.

(Quote) "Valid utilizes leading-edge accelerometer technology to measure along 3 separate axes (across front and rear axles, and longitudinally) of the vehicle chassis to check for both level and twist and then accurately levels the vehicle."

Yup, thats what I believe is needed to address the issue.

Slide equipped users chime in: What system do you have, and does it have one or multiple locations of where the leveling sensors are located? Do you think your system address chassis torque?

I know mine doesn't. HWS. (Quote)


I can't quite visualize what "leading-edge accelerometer technology" would be employed in a motorhome leveling system. Nothing moves fast enough to need accelerometer technology and I don't think that true "leading-edge accelerometer technology" would finically fit within the cost parameters used for motorhome leveling systems. But I could be wrong.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by alank View Post
Sounds like you're trying to figure a way to prevent the 4-valve leveling systems from twisting the chassis.


I can't quite visualize what "leading-edge accelerometer technology" would be employed in a motorhome leveling system. Nothing moves fast enough to need accelerometer technology and I don't think that true "leading-edge accelerometer technology" would finically fit within the cost parameters used for motorhome leveling systems. But I could be wrong.
Yes, the assumption was four points. I know 3 point systems exist but that "should" address the issue mechanically. Of course it has it's own issues of less stable, less total weight handling, etc.

"My 2015 Itasca with Swintek 4-valve, 4 jack leveling system had a sensor in the control box up front and a second one located on a stabilizer bar between the two rear jacks at the rear just for that purpose. How well it worked is questionable.
"
Why are you on the fence with how well it works? has your system said "it's level and square" and you looked at the slides and the gaps were skewed? Or put a carpenter level on the floor and it was off kilter?

Not sure what the company "Valid" thinks is "leading edge accelerometer technology"...Even the most basic is "instant enough". BTW, accelerometers are used for Tilt detection. They measure the effect of gravity to calculate tilt. The sensors we chose are good for limited angle, high repeatability and high precision across the temp range. And they seem to work excellent. We are making it WiFi to make it much easier to install into an existing coach. Cost wise, this should be an economical device, well within the anticipated budget of someone who cares about the issue (torqued slides).
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:51 PM   #34
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The current 3 point systems by Power Gear are 4 jack systems controlled by 3 valves. Don't know why you would think they are less stable or can't handle as much weight unless you aren't very familiar with the operation of the system. They just install the correct size jack to match the weight being lifted. Normally what I have seen is the weight of the front end of a coach is about 50% of the capacity of the two front jacks installed. I sort of got the impression you were thinking of the older three jack systems.

The best way I've found to release the torque, or twist of the chassis after leveling of the 4-valve, 4-jack Swintec system is to go to manual and lift the two front jacks with the front button just for a second or two. This action equalizes the pressure in the two front jacks releasing any twist on the chassis that can be created by the automatic mode. If the chassis is twisted, when you do this, there will be a significant jerk to one side or the other as the torque on the chassis is released. This is how I knew the chassis was twisted, even though there was a level sensor on each end of the coach. It's always been my opinion that lifting the two front jacks slightly in manual mode, should be the last action to leveling the Swintec system, whether you use automatic or manual.

If your accelerometer can do what you say it does and you could get Swintec to use it, it sure would be an improvement.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:11 PM   #35
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I sort of got the impression you were thinking of the older three jack systems.

The best way I've found to release the torque, or twist of the chassis after leveling of the 4-valve, 4-jack Swintec system is to go to manual and lift the two front jacks with the front button just for a second or two.

If your accelerometer can do what you say it does and you could get Swintec to use it, it sure would be an improvement.
Yes, from casual reading (didn't research) I was assuming a three POINT / Leg system (not four).

The idea is to 1) graphically view the level view of both the front and the rear sensors. Manual to level. 2) once that proves that this fixes the torque / slide interference issues, then evaluate connecting to the leveling system and use our automation software to improve the process...potentially to automatically do what you are doing manually. The certain obstacle with this is no two RVs are created same. Certainly in wiring and sensors (pressure) and possibly even process. So, we'll see.

The inclinometers we are using are very generic. Nothing special. I don't think it needs to be "special". Just needs to consistently show the current angle in 2D.

Graphically, even our test software looks pretty cool. Way nicer than what any OEM system displays (in size and quality of graphics).

going to read your post in more detail. Might have found someone who is thinking about the issue in an engineering mode...Thanx!
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:03 AM   #36
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When I leave, I do the reverse order. Pull the slide in, then retract the levelers.
OPS - I forgot to add one little caveat.. When it rains, we get a little pool of water that settles in the middle of the slide topper.

Before I pull in the slide, I look to see if there is a pool of water in the middle of the slide topper. If there is, I retract the levelers on the left side of the MH so the MH is tilted a little toward the drivers side.

Now when I retract the slide, the water thats pooled up in the middle of the topper will run toward the outside and drain vs running toward the inside and draining inside the MH.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:25 PM   #37
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LJowdy is correct. Mine can only put out slides when leveled first but you should check manufacturers recommendation.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:29 PM   #38
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Agree with leveling first. We have a 2018 PaceArrow and was told to level before putting the slides out. I have noticed that the leveling process can shake the MH and so I feel it would put additional stress on the slides if they were extended.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:50 PM   #39
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Who’s on first...

check OM or with mfr. Fleetwood F53 has says level then slides. Says it multiple places. That is what dealer says. Reverse before leaving. It is not a matter of personal preference.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:52 PM   #40
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"As an engineer - I can see no logical way to justify extending slides and then level, or retract the levelers and then pull in the slides."

I can imagine it's different with four leg vs. three leg levelers. On coaches with three leg levelers the single one is in the front. If you level first then put out one of those heavy front slides it will put out a torque on the frame that wouldn't be as great as it would be just sitting on the wheels. That's my guess as to why it is recommended to extend slides then level. Could be different for four point levelers.


Since I don't know what number of levelers posters on this forum have on their coaches can anyone with four point levelers tell me what their manual says?

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:06 PM   #41
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Newmar DPs with full wall slides recommend slides out first then level. Less chance of frame twist when suspension aired up. Then when leaving jacks up, air up, then slides in. Makes sense to me. This probably only applies to DPs with a full wall slide.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:43 PM   #42
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Leveling before or after slide outs

I always leveled coach prior to putting the slides out. We only have slides on one side and it would seem that the coach would be off just a little. I asked a service tech. He said level prior and hit the auto level after to readjust if needed. Made sense.
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