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Old 08-07-2022, 05:17 PM   #1
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Lithium battery installation causing power fault and charger shutdown

See additional enclosed pictures at:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/95vtusmf4nZRNko59

While at the FMC a rally in Tucson April 2022 we had our batteries upgraded to 8 Lion Safari UT 1300 105Ah lithium units with a Victron Energy Smart Shunt 500A/50mV and lithium battery bay shutoff switch. A PCI tech contacted said I did not need a 12V DC to DC Converter as their factory installed system on our 2018 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 is compatible for lithium upgrade with their factory Lithium Battery Isolation Manager (Li-BIM). The Magnum Energy transfer switch settings were re-set for the lithium conversion. The goal was to run the rear AC overnight. To accomplish this the rear AC was rewired ‘outside’ the EMS system and all was well on the 2 week trip home to Ohio. Rear AC will now run for approximately 8 hours overnight as we had hoped.
Returning home to indoor storage we plug into 50amp shore power with fridge off and essentially no load. I came back a week later and noticed this red light power fault. The charger in the basement was silent with no lights on and it was not running. I turned off the shore power overnight, turned off the inverter breaker in the half bath & shut off the new lithium battery switch in that bay. The following morning I turned on the 50 amp service, turned the inverter breaker on and normal charging was again noted. The following day the same red fault light was blinking again and the Magnum panel green charger light was blinking indicating the charger is off in stand by position. The same fault seen before.
Everything now is left off again as this cycle cannot be good for the system which seems to charge normally, but once reaching full charge this apparently does not shut itself off at the upper fully charged limit causing the red light fault to shut down.
Can someone tell me the setting that is missing as the Tucson installer is at a loss to explain this.
Refer to the link above for GOOGLE PHOTOS pictures attached - (the first five) of the panel with the fault. The next 2 after the inverter picture are after the ‘return to normal charging’ after the system is off overnight. The next long sequence of pictures after the ‘Victron 97% state of charge’ shows all of my Magnum settings scrolled through.
Does anyone have a recommendation of which setting may be incorrect triggering this apparent over-charge fault charger shutoff?
Otherwise, can anyone recommend a phone troubleshooter for this resolution as we are all experiencing significant delay getting service appointments?
Thanks in advance!
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Old 08-07-2022, 05:34 PM   #2
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My guess is with 800+AH of battery capacity your are exceeding the maximum time setting for bulk charging, though I don't know how or where you set that on your unit.
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Old 08-07-2022, 05:58 PM   #3
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If the lithium go over a set voltage or get to hot, the BMS will shut them down.

Once the batteries shut down, the Magnum will shut down due to no battery voltage.

Could it be something like that ?
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Old 08-07-2022, 06:48 PM   #4
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I agree with other possibilities already shared . Maybe BMS in batts stop using charge and inverter shuts down. With that many batts too long to equalize/top off as well.Possibly this didn't show up while you out and about and were using power and recharging , and only while stored is that correct?
. There is a going green forum here as well as FB groups dedicated to particular inverter/solar brands.
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Old 08-07-2022, 06:59 PM   #5
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Lithium on motorhomes can get pretty complicated really quick.
I would seriously suggest contacting the people that installed it and talking to them.
If you have lots of experience with technology and troubleshooting 12v problems you might be able to do the work. You'll need to start isolating where the problem is. Are the batts working now? What are the voltages when disconnected from the rv systems? Are the BMS's still functioning? What is the status of the BIM?
So many questions I can ask but I do suggest contacting the folks that installed it and ask for guidance.
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Old 08-07-2022, 07:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computerguy View Post
Lithium on motorhomes can get pretty complicated really quick.

I would seriously suggest contacting the people that installed it and talking to them.

If you have lots of experience with technology and troubleshooting 12v problems you might be able to do the work. You'll need to start isolating where the problem is. Are the batts working now? What are the voltages when disconnected from the rv systems? Are the BMS's still functioning? What is the status of the BIM?

So many questions I can ask but I do suggest contacting the folks that installed it and ask for guidance.
He said he contacted the installer with no answers.
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Old 08-08-2022, 06:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
He said he contacted the installer with no answers.
Sorry, I didn't see it. I still don't see they reached out to the installer for help. Am I going blind? Mind playing tricks on me? Under too much stress?
Please help an old guy out, where did they say they reached out for help to the installer?
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Old 08-08-2022, 06:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by computerguy View Post
Sorry, I didn't see it. I still don't see they reached out to the installer for help. Am I going blind? Mind playing tricks on me? Under too much stress?

Please help an old guy out, where did they say they reached out for help to the installer?
Can someone tell me the setting that is missing as the Tucson installer is at a loss to explain this.
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Old 08-08-2022, 07:26 AM   #9
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How does your coach charge the engine start batteries from the Magnum while on shore power?

I would be inclined to disconnect that and see if the fault light still illuminates.
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Old 08-08-2022, 08:10 AM   #10
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Thanks - I re-posted there as well.
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Old 08-08-2022, 08:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbill View Post
How does your coach charge the engine start batteries from the Magnum while on shore power?

I would be inclined to disconnect that and see if the fault light still illuminates.
This selective charge is from the factory installed PCI Li-BIM.

The manual states:
Lithium Battery Isolation
Manager (Li-BIM)
isolates the two battery
systems, chassis, and coach, in a motorhome. This
prevents loads in one system from discharging both. It
also connects the two battery systems together during
charging. Both batteries are charged if either is being
charged. The coach battery is charged while driving and
the chassis battery is charged while plugged into Shore
Power at a campground.
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Old 08-08-2022, 08:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contender View Post
This selective charge is from the factory installed PCI Li-BIM.

The manual states:
Lithium Battery Isolation
Manager (Li-BIM)
isolates the two battery
systems, chassis, and coach, in a motorhome. This
prevents loads in one system from discharging both. It
also connects the two battery systems together during
charging. Both batteries are charged if either is being
charged. The coach battery is charged while driving and
the chassis battery is charged while plugged into Shore
Power at a campground.
The Lithium LBIMs generally cycle the merge relay something like 15 minutes on 20 minutes off. The idea is if your Lithium batteries are pulling too much current from the alternator the alternator will get hot, but by cycling it you give it a chance cool down. There is no mention of this in the above description which makes me wonder, although you have used it enough that if you had a problem it likely would have already trashed your alternator. You may want to Track how much current is being pulled by your alternator when your batteries are low, and track for an hour to make sure it's not putting excessive stress on the alternator.

The theory that it's taking to long in bulk wouldn't explain why it happened when you started out being mostly charged.

The theory that the battery BMSs are shutting down from too high of a voltage sounds believable. Check your Magnum Bulk voltage and compare that to what your battery manufacturer recommends. If the bulk voltage is set to over 14.4 you can lower it to 14 4 and see if that helps.
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Old 08-08-2022, 09:31 AM   #13
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Steve,

What charge profile do you have set in your Magnum remote? What is “Final Charge” set to? What is your Absorb time, if any? What is Float set at?

I suspect your charger is causing your Lion lithium batteries to shut down due to over voltage for the pack or individual cell.
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Old 08-08-2022, 05:12 PM   #14
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I asked a bunch of questions yesterday but the OP did not answer them. They were not random questions but specific ones.
I have a Magnum ME-ARC remote with a Magnum inverter/charger and lithium batteries. I installed my own system and did troubleshoot issues early on. I know the system well.
I use a custom battery profile for charging. I go to silent when done charging.
You'll need to understand the requirements the Lion batts are looking for to be considered full. Too long for too high a voltage and you'll have problems. My manufacturer of lithium batts required 6 mins at 14.2 volts. That's all. But it's manufacturer specific. I have a Magnum BMK but honestly it SUCKS. It is off a lot every day. Then with solar EVERY day it decides I am full as the sun rises and the slow amperage rise Magnum considers this slowness as being full, no way around it, it is working as designed per Magnum engineers. Why I had to use voltage for a period of time and not SOC. A "fix" would be to use a Magnum solar controller. I have a Morningstar and wasn't ready to spend more for a less efficient controller.
Without answers I'm out. Best of luck to you resolving the issue.
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