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Old 08-18-2018, 09:26 PM   #113
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Lug Nuts

Budd wheels probably saved a few tire changers as they helped spur the decline of split rims of for large tires.

Amazing how much you can learn about Posters on this forum...especially their age when they bring up items "in the past".
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:31 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by MovingMann View Post
Budd wheels probably saved a few tire changers as they helped spur the decline of split rims of for large tires.

Amazing how much you can learn about Posters on this forum...especially their age when they bring up items "in the past".
...I agree. I have changed the old Dayton split rims...and are thankful I never got hurt.

I still see them on shipping container trailers...but that's about it


I am in a shop class daily now, ha-ha I teach a heavy truck diesel program at local votech...it cool to see how this industry had progressed. A lot of them old school trick's and methods don't work anymore...lol
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:01 AM   #115
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But, if it'll help, here's the right side. I just did this today. (Replacing ball joints)

Attachment 215582
If you have to do that then the nuts were too tight to start with, I always hand tighten so I know I can undo them.

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Old 08-19-2018, 05:46 AM   #116
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Here's a random pic I got off the net, the inner nut has the square head....

One would install the inner wheel, torque to specs, usually 500 ft.lbs...the install outer wheel and torque the outer nuts to 500 as well...Attachment 215588
Back in the day, on occasion, I've had the inner budd nut unscrew from the stud while turning the outer nut. The outer nut seized on the threads from being loose.

You end up with a pair of wheels stuck together.

Next step was burning it apart with the torch.

Here's a good picture. This held the inner wheel on and a bigger nut held the outer wheel on it. The square end will be marked L or R for threads.Click image for larger version

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Old 08-19-2018, 06:37 AM   #117
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If you have to do that then the nuts were too tight to start with, I always hand tighten so I know I can undo them.

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Said with a note of sarcasm, I hope
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:56 AM   #118
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Thanks for the education on Budd wheels guys. Very interesting. I had always heard of them, but never really saw any. As a engineer, I love to learn about subjects like this. I was involved in designing and constructing roads, bridges and rest areas for 34 years, and public works natural disaster assistance for 10 years after that, but never got into heavy mechanical jobs like you guys have. Now I'm just a shade tree Saturday mechanic trying to keep my toys going.

Teaching: Now there is a job that is underappreciated. Looking back on my life I think I would have loved to have been a teacher. But when I see what they have to put up with these days when parents are involved, no way. I don't think I could hold my temper!
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:31 AM   #119
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Those stud nuts are not the only left handed lugs ever used. Car and pickups used left handed lugs on the left side up into the mid sixties.
As for big trucks there was also spoke wheels which were held on by a wedge clamp and centered on the outer part of the rim. They took more attention to install but actually had a higher load rating than the bud style at the time. Talk about showing age, I was working on those trucks in early 60’s.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:54 AM   #120
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Thanks for the education on Budd wheels guys. Very interesting. I had always heard of them, but never really saw any. As a engineer, I love to learn about subjects like this. I was involved in designing and constructing roads, bridges and rest areas for 34 years, and public works natural disaster assistance for 10 years after that, but never got into heavy mechanical jobs like you guys have. Now I'm just a shade tree Saturday mechanic trying to keep my toys going.

Teaching: Now there is a job that is underappreciated. Looking back on my life I think I would have loved to have been a teacher. But when I see what they have to put up with these days when parents are involved, no way. I don't think I could hold my temper!
This was a very popular wheel in my career.

You put one wheel on, added a spacer and the next wheel on the opposite way. Then You added the wedge shapped clips and lug nuts.
If and when they got loose, the spider would spin in the wheel ride, over the stops, and tear out the air valves.

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Old 08-19-2018, 08:02 AM   #121
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If you have to do that then the nuts were too tight to start with, I always hand tighten so I know I can undo them.

BazEnglander
... I'm sure you mean tighten using hand tools... ha-ha

The nuts you see me loosen where last installed TORQUED to 500ft.lbs 3 years ago.

I hand no access to HD impact yesterday when I removed them.

The method I posted was a lot easier than breaking them loose by hand. And safer than putting a pipe on the tool.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:20 AM   #122
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Budd wheels probably saved a few tire changers as they helped spur the decline of split rims of for large tires.

Amazing how much you can learn about Posters on this forum...especially their age when they bring up items "in the past".

I have had both Dayton and Budd in both tube and tubeless. For me the decline of tube-type was the steel belted radial, which reduced the number of flats.
For a long time I did not want a truck with Budds. I could not see how the wheel center could hold up to the weight like that big cast hub. Good spacer ring and good wedges, the lugs did not need to be that tight.

Quote:
I still see them on shipping container trailers...but that's about it
From what I have heard, if the tire is run soft, and the tube is shredded, the price of tire comes out of the truck settlement. Tubeless, you pick up a nail, you can air it up, and drop it at the yard. Hole in tube, can't air up.


Quote:
Back in the day, on occasion, I've had the inner budd nut unscrew from the stud while turning the outer nut. The outer nut seized on the threads from being loose.

You end up with a pair of wheels stuck together.

Next step was burning it apart with the torch
Most times this happens somebody pulled the outer wheel, then put it back on without checking the torque on the inners. Cut the handle short on a boxend wrench, then weld it back together, so you can put wrench on outer nut with handle locked in a hole. Put your square socket on inner and tighten until it falls out.

I have used the jack wrench combination to get the drain plug out when somebody tightened a cold steel plug into a hot alloy pan.
Working with Budds I would get them all started, run a bottom in snug, then start at 10 o'clock go around clockwise taking them to finale torque. Never any trouble. But when I did that with the hub-pilot I ruined a few wheels.

BTW, I put new tubes in a couple of tires on split rim wheels last month. '53 GMC fire truck...
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:26 AM   #123
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Those stud nuts are not the only left handed lugs ever used. Car and pickups used left handed lugs on the left side up into the mid sixties.

Back in the early seventies when doing my auto-mechanics apprenticeship I ran into a few vehicles where left and right hand thread studs were installed on the same hub. What a nightmare. I'm very happy they got rid of left hand threads. I like things simple.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:20 AM   #124
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Said with a note of sarcasm, I hope

Hand tighten lug nuts is the safest way to go, that's how it was done in the old days. If you have the tools to hand tighten the lug nuts than you should be able to get them off the same way, like using a cheater bar. Power tools are OK, until they break or you don't have one available. For my pickup and camper, I will remove the lug nuts and initial install with a impact, but always final torque by hand. My son chose's to use a impact and he has had broken studs to prove it!
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:12 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
This was a very popular wheel in my career.

You put one wheel on, added a spacer and the next wheel on the opposite way. Then You added the wedge shapped clips and lug nuts.
If and when they got loose, the spider would spin in the wheel ride, over the stops, and tear out the air valves.
Attachment 215616Attachment 215617

UGH.....this brings up a bunch of bad memories....lol. When I first started at the city I currently works for I repaired big truck tires. We only had a few of the Dayton style wheels. You had to know what you were doing when you tightened them down or they would wobble down the road. I was glad to see that style of wheel all but disappear from big trucks.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:14 AM   #126
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Those stud nuts are not the only left handed lugs ever used. Car and pickups used left handed lugs on the left side up into the mid sixties.
.....

I knew a guy that had a car with left handed lugs on the left side that was built in the early 1980's. I think it was a 4 door Dodge, I remember it had an "electronic" carburetor, and not much else about it and an engine driven mechanical fuel pump. It was 15 or so years old when he had it, but that was still 20 years ago.
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