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Old 01-25-2017, 10:50 AM   #1
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Major Issues with Entegra, Newmar and Tiffin

My wife and I are selling our house and moving into full-time in a DP. We are looking for a late model (2014-2016) Ventura/Dutch Star, Phaeton/Allegro Bus, or Aspire/Anthem.

Reviewing the posts on the forums, I am trying to identify if there are any major recurring issues with a particular brand. I am not concerned with the stove, refrig, interior type issues.

For example, reviewing the posts for Entegra, there seems to be a recurring complaint about leaking radiators that I don't see with Tiffen or Newmar. Also, there seems to be more Aqua Hot complaints on the Entegra forum. Are these very common issues that I could expect with an Entegra? What other major/common issues would I expect with an Entegra.

With the Tiffin, the major concern seems to be everyone spending weeks at Red Bay getting repairs done. Do they have radiator/Aqua Hot issues to the same extent as Entegra?

With Newmar, the major concern seemed to be front axle weight on the 2016 Dutch Stars. For the Ventana, is 400HP enough for a 44ft when the other brands are using 450 at that length? Any issues with the Oasis system?

I would appreciate any and all comments. [moderator edit]
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:59 AM   #2
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Newmar seems to have had front axle loading problems for many years. Our 2002 DSDP 4090 was 50#'s over if I filled the propane and fuel tanks BEFORE we ever loaded anything aboard and no driver/passenger. Newmar had Spartan replace the OEM 12,000# axle with a 14,600# unit. That DSDP was the most dependable RV we've ever owned even after 13 years of ownership.
As to power, well the 450 is, for some people, not enough in a DSDP. I'm sure it wouldn't have been for me.
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Old 01-25-2017, 11:56 AM   #3
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Entegra has had an ongoing love affair with radiators from Spartan Chassis, but that has mostly gone away with the 2017 model year. If looking at an older coach, I would inquire about the radiator history.

If buying new, you should be good to go.


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Old 01-25-2017, 12:28 PM   #4
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Pat. Is the radiator repair a one time fix or recurring on earlier than 2017 models? Are the Aqua Hot issues common. I am trying to differentiate between major and very common issues to all Entegra coaches vs problems that folks report but the majority of owners don't have issues with. John
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlazar View Post
Pat. Is the radiator repair a one time fix or recurring on earlier than 2017 models? Are the Aqua Hot issues common. I am trying to differentiate between major and very common issues to all Entegra coaches vs problems that folks report but the majority of owners don't have issues with. John
The new radiators are anytime after Nov. 15 Any chassis manufactured after that date will have the new radiators.

The Aqua hot problems are not Entegra, they are Aqua Hot, same vendor that supplies the other manufactures except Newmar. The other Aqua Hot users have had the same pump motor failures that the units installed in Entegras have had. We do discuss it more on the Entegra forum as we try to help each other avoid problems if we can. Both subjects I have had experience with.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:07 PM   #6
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I can not address all of your concerns, only Tiffin. I have also heard of people spending time at Red Bay. Our 2013 Bus has never been back since it left for delivery. No recurring issues. As was mentioned, the Aqua Hot problems (although I have not had any problems) are not a coach problem. All three brands are good and have loyal followings. Our sons 2016 Mountain Aire has been a continuous problem. Most of the 45+ problems have been fixed but has been frustrating for him. According to him. the new full wall slideout is destined for future problems. His was the guinea pig for the first fix and it has to go back again. I think both Entegra and Newmar are quieter riding and camping coaches than Tiffin. The 450 Cummins is an adequate and reliable engine for the AB, DS, & ENtegra. My 450 hp Bus will out perform the Mountain Aire 500 hp in the mountains due to the 7000# difference in weight.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:28 AM   #7
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I would go with Tiffin much better built.
I just got a brand new 2017 Entegra Aspire and it has so many problem.
Entegra puts out dated parts not everything is new, when leaving Indiana.
No quality control before leaving.
Just look at the Driver front draw and compare with Tiffin, my list is way to long to share, it is very disappointing.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:52 AM   #8
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OK, IMO get a pair of dice and roll them. After owning three motorhomes and being a moderator and participant on IRV2 for several years (and visiting other RV forums), IMO any of the manufacturers you list can have build quality issues. Another complicating factor is the apparent race to automate everything and load the coaches with fluff, glitz, and features. And as noted, many of the things all of the manufacturers use (appliances, furnaces, etc) seem to have quality issues. Problems with pumps in Aqua Hots, crappy microwave ovens, etc. All the manufacturers you list have their own loyal owner base. Some of these folks are to be commended for their patience with dealing with problems and repeated factory visits.

The key seems to be selecting a manufacturer who does a great job of supporting the customer after the sale. It seems Entegra, Newmar and Tiffin all do that. I would not buy a Tiffin primarily because of their refusal to schedule factory service. You have to just show up and wait however long it takes. That just seems odd to me and a symptom of either being overwhelmed or disorganized, or both.

Visit the factories, watch them build coaches, talk to owners waiting for service. Develop your list of what features you want vs must-haves. Do your homework and have fun shopping.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlazar View Post
Reviewing the posts on the forums, I am trying to identify if there are any major recurring issues with a particular brand. I am not concerned with the stove, refrig, interior type issues.[moderator edit]
Answers you get on iRV2 will be anecdotal. Two guys love their brand of MHs and one guy hates his. That is not likely to really answer your questions.

If you want more than that look at the “RC Consumer Group.” Their ratings will answer many of your quality questions.

It is a great organization that is non-profit, meaning they accept no advertising that could influence their ratings. The $139 initial cost is well worth it. Sounds like a lot, but could save you thousands.

They provide ratings based on factory tours, owner surveys [I've completed 1 for my MH], inspections of HMs by experts, a quality rating & owner satisfaction, and engineering reports to determine handling and safety. Once you’ve joined, future rating guides are much cheaper, about $48. There are good coaches, and a lot of really bad coaches out there.

Before you start shopping, consider joining the RVCG and download the new & used ratings for MHs. When we bought our MH we found only 2 manufacturers that had the quality and handling/safety ratings we needed. We have purchased 2 TTs and a MH using these ratings & believe that the RVCG was one of the best investments we made.

Here’s the web site. If nothing more, go read their history, it’s an eye opener.

https://rv.org/

Happy camping.

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Old 01-26-2017, 09:19 AM   #10
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We recently went through this process. We were looking to upgrade from our 2010 Tiffin Red. I immediately threw out Tiffin even though we had one. Reasons being:
- Poor insulation (we live in FL and had trouble keeping coach cool in warm temperatures. Was even advised by Tiffin to set thermostats in the low 60's to offset temp change during the day. To me that is unacceptable based on what we are paying for these coaches).
- New coaches coming off line are having a high number of quality control issues resulting in a lot of fixes. I know a local master tech at a Tiffin dealer & he said it's amazing the amount of issues they are having on newly delivered coaches.

I will say we have throughly enjoyed our 2010 Tiffin with few issues, partly because we bought it used and the previous owner would of worked out the bugs for us.

So we eventually narrowed our search to Newmar & Entegra. In my opinion they are a step above the others unless you are looking at custom coaches such as Newell, Prevost, Foretravel, etc. In our case it came down to floor plans & decor which based on my signature you can tell we ended up with Newmar and took delivery of our custom factory order in November. We are very pleased with our new coach and found very little issues to fix. Our dealer even said call after your first few trips & we'll fit you in to take care of any issues and we haven't found any!

Bottom line go with what floor plan works best for you. I believe you can't go wrong with Newmar or Entegra although I would be more hesitant with Tiffin unless your using a dealer known for top notch service.

Side note- Both Newmar & Entegra take factory service appts, Tiffin does not and depending on time of year waits can exceed 2 weeks to get in.


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Old 01-26-2017, 09:22 AM   #11
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We've owned 6 motorhomes over many years, Shasta class C, 2 Holiday Rambler A's , Winnebago Journey, Allegro Bus and now our Anthem.

Your question on a particular brand forum will generate more positive brand feedback.

My suggestion is take the time to go to Red Bay and do the Tiffin factory tour and to Middlebury/Nappanee for Entegra/Newmar tour to see the actual construction process of the brands. Tiffin's are vacuum wall construction while Entegra/Newmar are hung wall. The 2 systems are vastly different which is IMHO the single most important difference and the reason why I can sleep in a rainstorm in our Entegra without earplugs as I did in our Bus ! Tiffins are built in 5 factory work days while Entegra's take 3 WEEKS and Newmar's sorry I don't remember.

Seriuosly though you owe it to yourself before spending your hard earned money to check out the builds.
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:36 AM   #12
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Another thing to remember is that ALL Newmars are "custom orders". Newmar doesn't build MH's on speculation. Someone has to fill out an order specifying what is to be put in each unit, whether it's a dealer or customer. Want custom interior colors? Want custom paint colors? Want a wall removed? Want two walls removed? How about the pocket door? Substitute a different vanity? Those last ones are what we had done with our "custom order" '00 and '02 DSDP's.
Those "specials" are what sets Newmar apart from most others in their price range.
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:58 AM   #13
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After doing the tours , wall construction and insulation (the lack of compared) crossed tiffin off our short shopping list . The "hung wall" makes more sense to us. our older coach has heavy insulation and stays cool or warm and just as important quiet. These are important factors for us. From our research Tiffin wasn't in the same league. Of course others will see it differently. We are looking but can't be persuaded yet to trade. Entegra and Newmar are a step up imo and were pretty much equal in construction quality we observed. They remain the coaches we still consider.
For what it's worth entegra won't make a full wall slide and newmar has been having problems with theirs it seems.
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Old 01-28-2017, 06:54 PM   #14
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I've owned both...I'd argue your suggestion. I firmly believe it is on a rig by rig basis. The 12 Entegra's didn't have any of the leak issues that the 13 /14's had. The aquahots have tons of problems with pumps in models after the 12's. I've never replaced a pump or anything on our aquahot.

Tiffin has a run of years in all their coaches that have floor rot in the slide outs and roof issues due to sealing and poor fiberglass mixtures.

They all have issues, you just have to do your homework and buy wisely. As for buying a brand new coach..you take your chances with innovation. Innovation is nice, but doesn't have experience in implementation when new.

Quote:
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I would go with Tiffin much better built.
I just got a brand new 2017 Entegra Aspire and it has so many problem.
Entegra puts out dated parts not everything is new, when leaving Indiana.
No quality control before leaving.
Just look at the Driver front draw and compare with Tiffin, my list is way to long to share, it is very disappointing.
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