Montana LLC

[Dc2x4drvr]

Originally Posted by theroc

I always recommend going through an insurance agency that is thoroughly familiar especially with insuring those using a Montana LLC. There are very few insurance agencies that really know all the ins-and-outs of exactly the ramifications as they pertain to insurance of full-timing and using a Montana LLC.

There are three I highly recommend. We've used all three through the years and settled on using the first, Destination Services, as our last agent. Two of them are right in Missoula but all are licensed to write policies in most states if not all.

1. Destination Services (Missoula)

2. Garden City (Missoula)

3. Miller (Lake Oswego, Oregon)


btw, we always used Montana as a garaging address ...and again, as most have been saying in this and the dozens of other threads on this subject, using a Montana LLC is suitable primarily for full-timers or those who are away from their home state the majority of the time. To be legal, you must adhere to the vehicle registration laws of the state in which you reside or call your domicile. Therefore, if the vehicle is physically in your home state more than not, a Montana LLC should not even be considered.

^^^^^!

[theroc]

TY, Dc2x4drvr


to those asking about insurance:

Again, I highly recommend using an insurance agency that is familiar with Montana LLCs if, in the end, you determine that using an LLC is appropriate and that you're not breaking any laws.

I forgot to mention an answer that Garden City Insurance (an agency in Missoula), has in their FAQ section:

How does Montana holding company (Montana LLC) registration affect my RV insurance?
It is not Federal or State law that dictate the manner in which the insurance is written for Montana LLC registration. It is however, the policies of the particular insurance company we are writing that dictates how the insurance is provided. We offer three companies which differ in the manner they require the Montana registered RV insurance to be issued. The common factor for all three companies is that your policy needs to include the name of the holding company to reference the same name that appears on your title and registration documents.

You will find that many insurance companies will not provide insurance for out of state registration under a holding company. It is very important that you obtain insurance from a highly rated insurance company that allows Montana holding companies.

(from this page)

[ThePowells]

I just love these Montana LLC threads.


If this is so legal, let's see everybody who has one post their full name and real home address. If it is actually legal, then no problem, right? We have seen legit stories of Montana LLCs being ruled as a "sham corporation" but who has had their LLC challenged and ruled as legal?

[theroc]

Originally Posted by ThePowells

I just love these Montana LLC threads.


If this is so legal, let's see everybody who has one post their full name and real home address. If it is actually legal, then no problem, right? We have seen legit stories of Montana LLCs being ruled as a "sham corporation" but who has had their LLC challenged and ruled as legal?

Look, using a Montana LLC is perfectly legal as long as one is adhering to the vehicle registration laws of the state of domicile.

Therefore, one must be full-time and/or not in their home state for the period of time that triggers vehicle registration.

A Montana LLC will NOT work --legally, at least-- for those who are not full-timing and are keeping the vehicle in their home state the majority of the time. That is indeed illegal in all states. Yes, some do it and get away with it but it is ILLEGAL as it pertains to the vehicle registration law of their state. If they get caught, they have to suffer the consequences of whatever their state deems appropriate. They have NO defense.

However, I've argued on these threads for over ten years now that we personally used one for about a decade totally without breaking any laws as we full-timed because we were hardly ever back in our state of domicile during the time we used a Montana LLC. When we were in our state of domicile, it was only for a few days. It worked well for us and there were NO laws broken.

It works for very few. That's why I always stress to carry out the proper due diligence before using one. There are a few, like us, that it works/worked well for and then there are others out there who use them, in essence, illegally and hope that they won't get caught.

So no, not ALL are breaking the law. Most? ...possibly. But not all.

[drwyatt]

Originally Posted by RETLT

Has anyone ever heard of or used a company called "All Day $49 Montana Registered Agent LLC" to create a Montana LLC for you? If so, how has it worked out for you? If you've used a different company and would recommend them, please let me know. Thanks!

We did the 49$ LLC in 2010 and they have been great, The other advantage they are in Flathead county which has lower RV license cost. We also transferred our auto to Montana as the plates would be the same.
Be aware that the LLC license with Montana means that your RV must be out of your home state for more than 6 months a year to be legal in your state. We were full timers from Washington State and was gone more than 6 months each year.
Police will often in your home state pull over a RV with a Montana tag and a car with your local state tag. Then you have to go to court to prove the RV is out of state for the 6 months. Keep gas and storage receipts for this verification.
We saved a ton of money as we had our RV purchase registered in Montana. Fees were low and no sales tax or excise tax. You must check to see what rules apply now. Different counties in Montana have there own rules and fees. at that time Flathead county was one of the lowest. It is a great way to go, but follow the time away rules of your home state.

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by drwyatt

We did the 49$ LLC in 2010 and they have been great, The other advantage they are in Flathead county which has lower RV license cost. We also transferred our auto to Montana as the plates would be the same.
Be aware that the LLC license with Montana means that your RV must be out of your home state for more than 6 months a year to be legal in your state. We were full timers from Washington State and was gone more than 6 months each year.
Police will often in your home state pull over a RV with a Montana tag and a car with your local state tag. Then you have to go to court to prove the RV is out of state for the 6 months. Keep gas and storage receipts for this verification.
We saved a ton of money as we had our RV purchase registered in Montana. Fees were low and no sales tax or excise tax. You must check to see what rules apply now. Different counties in Montana have there own rules and fees. at that time Flathead county was one of the lowest. It is a great way to go, but follow the time away rules of your home state.

Just a word of caution here. The six month rule applies to YOUR residency, but not necessarily the residency of the coach. Each state has some variation of the residency of a vehicle and some variation of the rules on an out of state entity owning an RV that is in-state. What works in Washington or California or Florida does not necessarily work in NY or Pennsylvania. Each state is different which is what makes doing one's homework so critical.

[awol50]

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

Just a word of caution here. The six month rule applies to YOUR residency, but not necessarily the residency of the coach. Each state has some variation of the residency of a vehicle and some variation of the rules on an out of state entity owning an RV that is in-state. What works in Washington or California or Florida does not necessarily work in NY or Pennsylvania. Each state is different which is what makes doing one's homework so critical.

I think most states by default will consider you a resident where your driver license is issued or registered to vote.
The IRS and most states that have income taxes use a facts and circumstances residency test. If you " live" more than 182 days in any one state is the primary test. Where your driver's license is. Where registered to vote. Irs and state tax return address.
They use these presumptions to mandate your residency and then you can challenge them by your unique facts and circumstances if you want. For challenging your RV residency they investigate, come to a conclusion. If you don't like their conclusion your only challenge is in the courts. At $300-500 an hour for an attorney, most people just don't challenge.

[geordi]

It isn't about whether the driver's license matches the state where the driver is... It is about whether the RV has been "living" in a given state other than where the plate says it is from.

States like North Carolina, Virginia, South Carolina.... These states don't care about income taxes, they care about PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXES and anything that can generate money for them... They want to collect on that money. There may be other states too.

Florida doesn't have personal property taxes, and for most vehicles, neither does Georgia. So an RV stored on private property in NC for more than their cutoff (I believe is 30 days) becomes eligible to owe property taxes to NC, even if the owner is an LLC from Montana and the operator is a licensed driver from another state. Even a vacationer staying at an RV park for more than 30 days can be tapped to owe personal property tax if the state is alerted to their existence. (This has happened but thankfully not to me)

I know someone who "lived" as a fulltimer at an RV park in South Carolina for nearly a decade, with a mailing address and license / plates / etc in Georgia because that was closer to where they were going on a daily basis. Theoretically, the RV which was unregistered and not being driven could have been owing personal property taxes to SC, as well as registration / tag / insurance to Georgia as a vehicle. It wasn't on the road, and thankfully nobody said anything. But that situation could have been complicated by just one person with a burr up themselves.

The reality is that much of what everyone does in their daily life could be found to be "wrong" or "in violation" of something or other, given only a dedicated pain-in-the-keister who wants to cause trouble and cost people money. When storing your RV in a private yard... Take the plate off and put it inside. Whether and where it is registered is ONLY a concern for when it is actually being used on the road. If it is just sitting in a storage yard, then not being obvious to attract attention is a better way to exist.

Will that stop a state like NC from looking for all possible sources of revenue? No... BUT if your private yard has any kind of decency, if someone comes asking "hey, who owns that coach that I don't see a plate on as I drive by"... Then the yard will politely ask them to cough up a court order for the information. Legally they are entitled to ask for personal property taxes, but legally we also don't have to make it easy for them either.

[awol50]

Originally Posted by geordi

It isn't about whether the driver's license matches the state where the driver is... It is about whether the RV has been "living" in a given state other than where the plate says it is from.

States like North Carolina, Virginia, South Carolina.... These states don't care about income taxes, they care about PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXES and anything that can generate money for them... They want to collect on that money. There may be other states too.

Florida doesn't have personal property taxes, and for most vehicles, neither does Georgia. So an RV stored on private property in NC for more than their cutoff (I believe is 30 days) becomes eligible to owe property taxes to NC, even if the owner is an LLC from Montana and the operator is a licensed driver from another state. Even a vacationer staying at an RV park for more than 30 days can be tapped to owe personal property tax if the state is alerted to their existence. (This has happened but thankfully not to me)

I know someone who "lived" as a fulltimer at an RV park in South Carolina for nearly a decade, with a mailing address and license / plates / etc in Georgia because that was closer to where they were going on a daily basis. Theoretically, the RV which was unregistered and not being driven could have been owing personal property taxes to SC, as well as registration / tag / insurance to Georgia as a vehicle. It wasn't on the road, and thankfully nobody said anything. But that situation could have been complicated by just one person with a burr up themselves.

The reality is that much of what everyone does in their daily life could be found to be "wrong" or "in violation" of something or other, given only a dedicated pain-in-the-keister who wants to cause trouble and cost people money. When storing your RV in a private yard... Take the plate off and put it inside. Whether and where it is registered is ONLY a concern for when it is actually being used on the road. If it is just sitting in a storage yard, then not being obvious to attract attention is a better way to exist.

Will that stop a state like NC from looking for all possible sources of revenue? No... BUT if your private yard has any kind of decency, if someone comes asking "hey, who owns that coach that I don't see a plate on as I drive by"... Then the yard will politely ask them to cough up a court order for the information. Legally they are entitled to ask for personal property taxes, but legally we also don't have to make it easy for them either.

It does matter which state you are a resident of (and the tests used to determine that) and where you drive and park your RV.
Anybody can not follow the law. Just be prepared to get spanked if your neighbor or anyone snitches you out.
The discussion here is not how to figure out ways to hide your illegal vehicle registration, but how to be legal in the first place.

[NevadaNick]

Just because you live in one state does not mean you cannot have a vehicle registered in another. I have registration in 3 different states and all are legal. Take for instance my boat, it is registered in anther state but kept at my home, the rules for my home state say that is ok as long as its used out of state more than in.

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Just because you live in one state does not mean you cannot have a vehicle registered in another. I have registration in 3 different states and all are legal. Take for instance my boat, it is registered in anther state but kept at my home, the rules for my home state say that is ok as long as its used out of state more than in.

Your point is well taken, but the legality depends on where you reside. Each state has residency laws that apply to not only physical residency of the individual but also the residency of the vehicle. That may be as little as 30 days or as much as six months, depending on the state. What is legal in Nevada is not necessarily legal in Michigan or NY or other states.

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by wnytaxman

Your point is well taken, but the legality depends on where you reside. Each state has residency laws that apply to not only physical residency of the individual but also the residency of the vehicle. That may be as little as 30 days or as much as six months, depending on the state. What is legal in Nevada is not necessarily legal in Michigan or NY or other states.

Explain the Maine Trailer Tag - these trailers are all over the country - they are register in another state................different? How?

[geordi]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Just because you live in one state does not mean you cannot have a vehicle registered in another. I have registration in 3 different states and all are legal. Take for instance my boat, it is registered in anther state but kept at my home, the rules for my home state say that is ok as long as its used out of state more than in.

Florida also has a provision on boat registrations - I don't own a boat so I don't know the details about that, but I DO know that there are more boats registered in Florida than there are car owners to pull them! Many of these boats must be outside of Florida or the state would be overflowing with them.

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by Busskipper

Explain the Maine Trailer Tag - these trailers are all over the country - they are register in another state................different? How?

The trailer tags are on trailers used in interstate commerce. That's the big difference. The trailers are rarely "garaged" in only one state. Interstate commerce rules are different.