Motor Compartment Fire on I8

[phinneyj]

Originally Posted by slemnah

I installed one of Mac's extinguishers in my closet on one of the removable panels with the nozzle above the engine. The camera idea is a good one although I keep my back up camera going all the time so that I can see if smoke starts pouring out.

All the smoke we could see was in the bedroom. nothing out the back. Putting Camera and/or heat/flame detector in engine compartment. Gonna update my fire bottles too.

[slemnah]

Please post how you do that and what equipment you use.
Steve

[Selah]

Glad to hear that everyone is OK and hope your hands heal quickly. I would say your lucky but I think that's not the case. Your quick actions is want really saved the day.
Rather than Halon you might consider an AFFF (foam) system for the engine compartment. We had FireFight systems install one in both the engine compartment and generator compartment. Also replaced the dry extinguisher with AFFF manual both by the door and bedroom.

[CountryFit]

Originally Posted by phinneyj

All the smoke we could see was in the bedroom. nothing out the back. Putting Camera and/or heat/flame detector in engine compartment. Gonna update my fire bottles too.

looks like a complete security ip camera system - i think can be used for fire purpose - costs about $400, like this http://www.httbuy.com/4-ip-camera-video-surveillance-system-4-ip-cameras-dvr.html. it has night vision which is important in engine bay; and a motion sensor - as only engine belts start to run it will be triggered to live... we might not need the recording function but that is easy to turn off or ignore. i will search more on similar ones as i am sure i will install one.

as for fire bottles, what brand do you recommend, and how many should be kept in a m/h? you are an expert on this, your opinion is invaluable

[phinneyj]

So here are your choices for extinguishing agents. I know that it is popular to use AFFF in stored pressure extinguishers for use in the Engine Compartment. However, that may not be the best choice. There are three agents that I may look at. Dry Powder (B.C.) rated. Purple K is non corrosive and cleaned fairly easy. This is popular in the Aviation industry and is commonly used in conjunction with water or AFFF. Next agent is AFFF. This is a good clean agent designed specifically for Class B liquid fires. Effectiveness in a 3D fire is reduced. AFFF likes to cool and seal the flammable liquid. Not as effective or as fast as Dry Powder. Next are the Halatrons. These are clean agents and very effective. Someone mentioned that the wind turbulence in the engine compartment while on the road makes Halons ineffective. I propose that your most effective suppression will require an engine shutdown. Reason being that if the fire is being fed by high pressure fuel lines then you have to be shut down to get it out. With a good detection system and engine compartment insulation will give you ample time to stop, shut down, evacuate, evaluate and begin suppression activities. Halon at this point would be highly effective.

I would also highly suggest that 'drilling' scenarios will help you focus when you really need it. I am still evaluating how I want to do it. But the discussion is well worth the effort.

[PushedAround]

Jeff, one of the problems with AFFF was that in cold temps it would freeze and therefore be ineffective, even when thawed out again. Have they solve this problem or would part of the winterizing process have to be to move the bottles to a warm place.

[phinneyj]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

Jeff, one of the problems with AFFF was that in cold temps it would freeze and therefore be ineffective, even when thawed out again. Have they solve this problem or would part of the winterizing process have to be to move the bottles to a warm place.

That's a good point. Storage for AFFF has to be climate controlled. Too much heat or cold is not good for it. I am not sold on using AFFF. I prefer the Purple K or Halons.

[CountryFit]

Originally Posted by phinneyj

So here are your choices for extinguishing agents. I know that it is popular to use AFFF in stored pressure extinguishers for use in the Engine Compartment. However, that may not be the best choice. There are three agents that I may look at. Dry Powder (B.C.) rated. Purple K is non corrosive and cleaned fairly easy. This is popular in the Aviation industry and is commonly used in conjunction with water or AFFF. Next agent is AFFF. This is a good clean agent designed specifically for Class B liquid fires. Effectiveness in a 3D fire is reduced. AFFF likes to cool and seal the flammable liquid. Not as effective or as fast as Dry Powder. Next are the Halatrons. These are clean agents and very effective. Someone mentioned that the wind turbulence in the engine compartment while on the road makes Halons ineffective. I propose that your most effective suppression will require an engine shutdown. Reason being that if the fire is being fed by high pressure fuel lines then you have to be shut down to get it out. With a good detection system and engine compartment insulation will give you ample time to stop, shut down, evacuate, evaluate and begin suppression activities. Halon at this point would be highly effective.

I would also highly suggest that 'drilling' scenarios will help you focus when you really need it. I am still evaluating how I want to do it. But the discussion is well worth the effort.

thanks for the info. in addition to the dry power i have, i guess i'll add a halotron (or purple k) for liquid fire. talked to dw about your incident and your suggestions, we planned to drill this just like how we drilled gun applications, once every one or two years. we may never need it but be prepared for unexpected.

[phinneyj]

For clarification. Halons do not suffocate a fire like CO2 does. These agents interrupt the combustion process at the chemical level. I have used Halon to extinguish a VW bug engine fire. Very little agent was required.

[daveandcarol]

Educate me.

Would a pressurized CO2 system (assuming such a thing is available) be suitable for engine compartments? Obviously it wouldn't be suitable for occupied areas (doesn't Halon have this same problem? It used to be common in data processing areas but needed an alarm before it went off so everyone could get the heck out of the room) but it wouldn't freeze. Is CO2 just considered too 'old-fashioned' any more with newer and apparently better extinguishing agents available?

[cochise1949]

Halon hasn't been available for over a decade. Something about that hole in the ionosphere and/or green house gas. Managed Fire Protection for a Northrop Grumman facility in San Diego before 2007 retirement. Existing supplies were available up to a date established by EPA. Date is long past. Foam is probably the best way to go. Halon was used in Computer Rooms because it didn't ruin components that the fire hadn't already destroyed. Something called Energen(I think) took Halons place.

[phinneyj]

Originally Posted by daveandcarol

Educate me.

Would a pressurized CO2 system (assuming such a thing is available) be suitable for engine compartments? Obviously it wouldn't be suitable for occupied areas (doesn't Halon have this same problem? It used to be common in data processing areas but needed an alarm before it went off so everyone could get the heck out of the room) but it wouldn't freeze. Is CO2 just considered too 'old-fashioned' any more with newer and apparently better extinguishing agents available?

FWIW - My background is in Aviation. I have been to fire schools in the Navy, College Station TX and the old UNR Dodds Beale Fire Training Center Reno/Stead, NV. Along with numerous drills in a burn pit we maintained at the airport before environmental sensitivities. I have trained on and used most extinguishing agents against all class fires except K. Which I highly recommend you put in your RV's galley.

Extinguishing agents are designed to work on specific classes of fires through interruption of one or more of the four elements described in the Fire Tetrahedron.

CO2 is an agent that removes the oxygen element from the fire Tetrahedron model. It is great in enclosed unoccupied spaces as it rapidly displaces oxygen. Cooling effect is negligible.

AFFF is a primarily a class B agent that blocks flammable vapors from mixing with oxygen and burning. As the liquid fuel heats up, vapor pressure increases creating more flammable vapor.

The Halons commonly 1211 and 1301 extinguish at the chemical process level by interrupting that process. This is the extinguishing agent of choice for aircraft engine compartments. On the ground Purple K is the agent of choice in my department. It is non-corrosive and easily cleaned and highly effective.

I would prefer either of these agents over AFFF in a stored container for a variety of reasons. Weather extremes being one. Effectiveness another.

I have not seen any tests of AFFF used in the stored automatic release bottles with a sprinkler head. If someone has other information I would be happy to read it. I am still learning.

[phinneyj]

It has been a long wait for Cummins to finish their work. Most of the wait was involved in replacing two about 60 foot AC hoses. Run front to back that had to be custom made. After talking to Cummins today, the new line is in and they are putting the Cooling PAC in tomorrow and recharging the AC system. Fingers crossed I will be traveling to San Diego in the next couple days. Two months for this repair. Service at Cummins Pacific in El Cajon and Good Sam's insurance through National General has been exceptional.:da nce:

[jdoran1973]

Great news. Hope the hand is all healed up as well. Best of luck to you, and many happy journeys!