Mystery Wiring in breaker box

[Rich-n-Linda]

It seems obvious to me that the gray jumper should be removed and the red wire connected where the left end of the gray jumper is. That would put things back to "normal" as it was wired from the factory.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

There is no page #2 until the thread gets past post number 25 which is this one if I get done in time.

That depends on your personal settings. Mine is set for 15, then I see a second page.

[malexander]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

I think you wrote down the wrong wire colors therefore the confusion.

Red & Black are HOT, White is Neutral and Green is ground.



There is no page #2 until the thread gets past post number 25 which is this one if I get done in time.



Winepress has written the correct information.

Ignore all of the previous written "stuff".

Dr4Film ----- Richard

I went back & "proof read" my previous posts. You're right, I did write the wrong colors for voltage. Ssssssoooooorrrrrrrrrryyyyyy

[Alan Wilson]

Sorry it takes me so long to respond. This campground doesn't have wifi. I will try to answer everyone's questions as I can remember them. It is a molded 50 amp four prong plug and the pedestal is hot and working correctly. Generator provides 50 amp power so the transfer switch works correctly. The red in the panel was hot. The black was not disfigured, it is fine, I think it was just the way the picture looked. It has 220V across red/black and 120V on each neutral. Someone suggested that at one point the pedestal might have been defective on one leg so they put the jumper in to get power to the red leg. That one makes the most sense to me. It Is dangerous as hell but still makes sense as that is the easiest access point to the wiring to correct a problem like that. I did remove the jumper and reconnect the red wire and I now have 50 amps on the EMS and there were no issues at all other than the water heater and I think the water heater is a coincidence as it appears the switch on it is bad.

Everybody, I appreciate the feed back and all the responses and I am going to take it back to the dealer now armed with some knowledge and ammunition. I know he will try to blow smoke where it doesn't belong but then pretty much all dealers do that. In all fairness the guy at the dealer is looking at the same picture I posted here with the information I have given here as well. He admitted he didn't really know why anyone would do that and the inverter was the only thing he could come up with until he got to look at it hands on. That reminds me, some one asked about the inverter. Yes it is the original inverter and it works fine with no issues.

We are having a lot of fun learning about this MH but this issue was a little unnerving. I really have no way to go back to the previous owner and ask him as he has passed away. When I was considering buying an older DP like this a guy told me there is a pretty steep learning curve and he was not kidding! Lol! I spend every evening reading about all the systems on this thing and how they all work and everyday seems to bring some new wrinkle I have never run into with previous units, but then, I love a challenge.

[Steve N Sal]

Thankfully you have gotten the issue resolved. Yes, leaving that red wire uncapped could have led to someone getting hurt for sure or could have led to a BIG BOOM if it had shorted out to the panel enclosure. Fortunately none of that happened. That sure was strange and I have NO idea why someone would have done that outside of something being wrong with the conductor itself but they still should have capped it off. Anyway, good luck and hope everything will be OK.


For the DIY'ers out there: One thing that I would like to pass along is "Never take electricity for granted, it's a HAZARD you CANNOT see".

[malexander]

Originally Posted by Steve N Sal

For the DIY'ers out there: One thing that I would like to pass along is "Never take electricity for granted, it's a HAZARD you CANNOT see".

Yeah, It's magic, huh?

[bruceisla]

BTW, I can't really tell from the picture, but most breakers are not designed for a "double tap" (2 wires under 1 screw). Square-D makes some ... they are clearly labeled and, if you look into the connector area, there are 2 slots and a "wobble washer" under the screw. If the breaker isn't designed for a "double tap" it should not be done.

[Ramblin]

Good advice above. Another thing I notice is the jumper looks to be #12 or #14 AWG, which is not sufficient (even as a temporary fix for a dead leg on the pedestal) to carry the (potentially 50A) load; a fire hazard.

[YC1]

Glad you got it fixed. Some amazing knowledge base on this forum. Gets a bit tense at times but then techs are like artists. We are Tempermental and have big egos. Can't get two to agree on how to screw in a light bulb.

If you are going to pursue the hot water heater issue yourself I have some schematics that should help. Basically twelve volts controls a relay that has 110 volts on it. Find the outlet it is plugged into and see if that is hot.

[Alan Wilson]

I jumped on here at work for a few minutes. The 12 GA jumper was stuck beside the Black wire and somehow they got it in there tight as I assumed it would pull right out which it did not. You guys are a great help. I am struggling trying to understand all the different things about this MH. I know it has not been used much at all the last few years and I am using it 24/7 ATM so I am finding many things that do not like working after so much time off. (kind of like the rest of us!) I think I will buy a repair manual for MH's so If you have a recommendation for a manual that shows how to test, fix or work on a wide variety of MH systems. I just don't know what all is normal and what is not. This happened to be very obvious but it was not obvious getting to the problem. I really dislike electrical stuff because it is so hard to test wires without the power being on.

[BFlinn181]

I don't know of a generic motorhome manual that could really be helpful. The best thing I've discovered is to note all brands and model # of various systems and look for PDF manuals on line. Even wiring diagrams don't reveal WHERE a component is located or HOW the wiring was routed to and from the various parts. With my RV I received a 3" binder of information on systems, but most are instruction manuals for installation of the item, few include troubleshooting or diagnosis information. And of course the best resource is iRV2 with folks that have been in our shoes and figured it out.

[Ramblin]

Originally Posted by YC1

Glad you got it fixed. Some amazing knowledge base on this forum. Gets a bit tense at times but then techs are like artists. We are Tempermental and have big egos. Can't get two to agree on how to screw in a light bulb.

If there is ONE thing we can agree on, it is this: there is not ONE thing we can agree on.


...and there IS a right (and wrong) way to screw in a light bulb.

[gemini5362]

I am glad that you found a resolution on the problem. I am amazed that anyone would fix something in that manner. You might want to go to lowes or Home depot or someplace like that and get an electrical outlet tester then check all of your electrical outlets to see if they are wired correctly. I know that there are posts from a certain individual that will tell you that in a certain condition those testers are not accurate but for the purpose you need it for at this point it will probably be a very inexpensive method of telling you if the receptacles all have power and a good ground. I believe once you have seen the type of electrical engineering performed on your breaker box that everything electrical in the coach is suspect until you check it out.

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by Alan Wilson

We recently picked up our 2001 HR Scepter and we are staying in it to do an initial shakeout of the unit. I have had a guy here on IRV2 with a Scepter just like mine that has been a tremendous help on a great many things that I did not understand and I want to thank him greatly for that help but I could never resolve the issue with the Electrical Management System thinking we were plugged into 30 Amp service when we were actually plugged into 50 Amp service. I finally get time to check it out last night (and it wasn't raining ) so I took my multimeter out and I check the pedestal. It was good. I check the distribution box, It was good. I open up the breaker box and lo & behold what I find is the red wire has been disconnected (left loose to shock the crap out of someone or touch the panel box) and a jumper from the black wire has been run over to where the red wire was. I am at a loss as to why and what a person would gain to do this. It is obviously done on purpose. But why!? I am attaching a picture of what I saw. Anyone that can tell me I am all ears. PS; the EMS shows that I am now connected to 50 Amp service.

Not sure if this incident is connected to this wiring snafu or not but the electric part of the water heater quit last night as well. Cold shower this morning! Brrr.

(I love these smileys now that I know how to use them.)

I'm assuming that you have a 50amp plug in use for shore power, but either way, someone has for whatever reason, decided to use only one side or hot wire to supply both sides of the breaker box. Don't know why this was done and maybe because one side was lost from their 50amp supply and they didn't know what else to do about it. If you were to use a 30amp plug and no converter cord, this would be required for energizing both sides of the box as well. Still don't really get it to the whys of this thing, but it should be easily corrected. If your EMS is showing 50amp, then this could just mean that both sides of the breaker box is energized and not necessarily with an opposite potential. The Jumper does this by feeding both sides with the same potential. Story short, it decreases the power available from 100amps @ 120v to 30amp @ 120v.