Community Forums

Redapple · 10-07-2018, 11:47 PM

At the Pomona RV show today and fell in love with a Tiffin Open Road 34 gas, price was excellent, and they are willing to work with me on a trade...

My concern...
I want to add a toad...my current rig is a 2006 Damon Daybreak 32 with the V10. I would never consider towing with this, just not enough power, yet all day long I was told the current Ford platform is ok for a small road.

I looked at a Tiffin 33 Red which was beautiful but also 60k more for diesel, and the diesel specs were not much more than the Ford.

Please help me understand why they keep saying V10 is ok to tow despite my experience to the opposite.

Thanks,
Bill

Massparanoia · 10-08-2018, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redapple

At the Pomona RV show today and fell in love with a Tiffin Open Road 34 gas, price was excellent, and they are willing to work with me on a trade...

My concern...
I want to add a toad...my current rig is a 2006 Damon Daybreak 32 with the V10. I would never consider towing with this, just not enough power, yet all day long I was told the current Ford platform is ok for a small road.

I looked at a Tiffin 33 Red which was beautiful but also 60k more for diesel, and the diesel specs were not much more than the Ford.

Please help me understand why they keep saying V10 is ok to tow despite my experience to the opposite.

Thanks,
Bill

I pull a Chrysler Town & Country with our 2016 Newmar Bay Star Sport and don’t have any problems with it. It’s an RV, not a Peterbilt.

triplewide · 10-08-2018, 03:03 AM

We have a 2015 Thor ACE 30' (18K chassis), towing a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee (about 4500 lbs). Our V10 has triple overhead valves and produces about 362 HP, 457 torque, (as I recall), with 5 speed transmission. Our total weight runs about 22K with toad. I can not recall any grade that we have pulled under 50 MPH.

The new V10's are 320 HP,460 torque, but have 6 speed transmission. The Open Road 34 with a 4500 lb toad would put you around 29K total weight. (just a guess)

My uneducated opinion is the the 320 HP with 6 speed tranny will be about equal to the pulling power of the 362 HP with 5 speed tranny.

The Tiffin REDs have 360 hp, 800 torque pulling an estimated 35K with toad.

For reference: My ACE is about 61 lbs per HP, 48 lbs per FT/LB torque and tows well IMO.

RED is about 97 lbs per HP and 44 lbs per FT/LB torque

Open Road is about 91 pounds per HP and 63 lbs per FT/LB torque.

The Open Road wins on HP and losses on torque.

Performance on pulling should be similar with the RED doing better on steeper grades.

Both coaches will get you there and back. Unless you live in the Rockies, I would not worry about the difference in towing ability. The RED has other advantages on top of pulling power. Air bag suspension, quieter ride, etc. For me the cost difference was not worth it. If we ever full time I would probably choose diesel.

Indy Glenn · 10-08-2018, 03:30 AM

Great info above....

Short answer - you can tow.

With a 5K# hitch capacity, you will not be towing an F150.

We tow a Ford Fiesta - it weighs somewhere in the 2.5K# area.

I have seen some V10s of different brand motor homes pulling some really heavy, in my view, vehicles and large enclosed trailers.

As far as speed - I have gone below 50mph on some longer 6% grades. Maybe around 45mph, but I work the throttle and gears, and do not just floor it up a hill.

So look at your tow and it's weight - go from there......

Good luck,

g

Betr2Trvl · 10-08-2018, 04:36 AM

My 31SA fully loaded weighs 22.6k and I pull a 4500# Cherokee.

Don’t tell anyone, but some of the roads we have taken in our gasser, always pulling the toad, include:
I40 over the Smokies in both direction
I77 over Fancy Gap in in VA both directions
I70 eastbound in eastern UT
Vail Pass eastbound
CO9 southbound from Breckinridge
Up and down to Estes Park
UT12 Bryce to Torrey
Wolf Creek Pass southbound
CO149 / Slumgullion Pass southbound
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumgullion_Pass
Slumgullion Pass, elevation 11,530 ft (3,510 m), is a mountain pass in Colorado traversed by State Highway 149 east of Lake City. The north side has the steepest grade of any continuously paved road in Colorado (9%)
As well as some some fun grades in Quebec along the St. Lawrence, and across New Brunswick.

We’ll be heading back to the Rockies and west coast next summer.....

You just have to manage your expectations, and “drive” the coach, no cruise control. Yes, at times it will be slow, and maybe a bit loud (pretty irrelevant really, and not at all as the “DP crowd” likes to make it out to be), but think about how little time you are actually driving significant grades.......

This is our first RV, and we did breifly consider the 33AA and the Breeze 32, but just could not justify the price difference among other things (we had no interest in older units for a long list of reasons) After 31000 miles in the last 3 1/2 years, having traveled most of the US and eastern Canada, with our trips typically 1-3 months long, we’ve never second guessed our decision.

Sorry for the upside down pic., just can’t get it right side up; this is Slumgullion Pass this summer....

Oh, and we do like the PA floor plan........ we have friends with a 40AP Bus (longer version of same floor plan) and found the general layout very nice.

Regards

Gary RVRoamer · 10-08-2018, 05:29 AM

You have some misconceptions about towing, I think. "power" has relatively little to do with it. The extra weight slows you a bit on hills and needs more braking for the downhill side, but has little impact otherwise. Your main concern should be the hitch rating and the coach GCWR, which together determine the max towing capacity. For most gas class A's, that works out to 5000 lbs. That's sufficient to handle most any car or minivan and all but the largest SUVs.

The V10 has plenty of horsepower to move the combined load - as much as the smaller diesels (5.9L-6.7L size).

marjoa · 10-08-2018, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Glenn

We tow a Ford Fiesta - it weighs somewhere in the 2.5K# area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redapple

My concern...
I want to add a toad...my current rig is a 2006 Damon Daybreak 32 with the V10. I would never consider towing with this, just not enough power, yet all day long I was told the current Ford platform is ok for a small road.

Please help me understand why they keep saying V10 is ok to tow despite my experience to the opposite.

I'm not sure why the OP's experience is he doesn't have the power to tow. I don't understand.

You should not have any problem towing...
"as long as you keep your weights right". If your GVWR is right at 22K, you can only tow 4K not 5K the hitch is rated for. If you need to tow 5K reduce GVWR to <21K. You have a limit total of 26K GCWR.

Get a toad in the 2,700 - 3,500lb range or so and you should be fine and not maxing out the MH's capacity.

We also tow a Ford Fiesta, Manual 5 speed and keeping our GCWR down was one reason we choose this toad. Totally loaded our GCWR is 25,100 and that's with a 1/3 tank of water, so still have plenty of room left for a full tank of water when boon docking and be under my GCWR. This Fiesta also allows us more stuff in our GVWR. The Fiesta tows 4 down, takes 5 minutes to hook up, gets great MPG, easy to park and with full tank of gas and loaded with stuff weighs in at 2,750lbs. Oh, and my wife can hook it up by herself.

vettenuts · 10-08-2018, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triplewide

The new V10's are 320 HP,460 torque, but have 6 speed transmission. The Open Road 34 with a 4500 lb toad would put you around 29K total weight. (just a guess)

My uneducated opinion is the the 320 HP with 6 speed tranny will be about equal to the pulling power of the 362 HP with 5 speed tranny.

According to what I have read, the motor itself is the same. They rated it at a lower RPM because a new noise standard was imposed by the EPA. If the RPM were even lower, than the hp would be lower as well.

Don't think the OP will have any issues towing, but as others have said you have to drive the coach. I run a Workhorse and it will climb any hill I want. I pick the gear and hold an RPM that I am comfortable with. I try to select a gear that requires the least amount of pedal to climb the hill. Sometimes I pass trucks going up the same hill, sometimes not. In the end, I still get to the top and the engine temperature is fine as well.

Dave11 · 10-08-2018, 08:46 AM

I cannot understand why the OP does not think his current V10 is suitable for towing. Perhaps there is an issue which is effecting the engine power in the current rig.

Rather than give my opinion on the issue I will simply point to the rigs on the highway. I live near I-75 and travel it often, the majority of Class A gas Rv's are Fords, the majority of those have a toad. I'll guess the majority works out to 75% give or take.

There are also a lot of Class C's with the less powerful version of the V10 pulling toads.

If the Ford V10 was not suitable for pulling a toad this would not be the case.

Redapple · 10-08-2018, 08:20 PM

Folks,

Thank you all for your honest input to my basic question. The reason I posted this question is simple. I drive in the west coast and go up 6-7 percent grades regularly. My GCWR is right under 26k. My empty weight is 16k. I am right around 19k ready for a trip. My RV runs like a top, but just cannot handle those grades. The one right outside Bishop, CA is 6%, and I go up that grade in 2nd @ 4000rpm and right around 40. Can't even imagine what that grade would be like with a toad. That is my concern. I am sure it would be just fine in flats. Based on all of your inputs I will try.

I also agree that the cost differential between a base level diesel and a gasser may not be worth the cost based on usage and frequency. That is also part of my concern.

Domo · 10-08-2018, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redapple

At the Pomona RV show today and fell in love with a Tiffin Open Road 34 gas, price was excellent, and they are willing to work with me on a trade...

My concern...
I want to add a toad...my current rig is a 2006 Damon Daybreak 32 with the V10. I would never consider towing with this, just not enough power, yet all day long I was told the current Ford platform is ok for a small road.

I looked at a Tiffin 33 Red which was beautiful but also 60k more for diesel, and the diesel specs were not much more than the Ford.

Please help me understand why they keep saying V10 is ok to tow despite my experience to the opposite.

Thanks,
Bill

Perhaps you should get the specs from the manufacturer?

Diesels have lower end torque - perhaps that's part of their answer? Yes, diesels cost more.

b1rider · 10-08-2018, 08:35 PM

here you go. hope this helps.

Massparanoia · 10-08-2018, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redapple

Folks,

Thank you all for your honest input to my basic question. The reason I posted this question is simple. I drive in the west coast and go up 6-7 percent grades regularly. My GCWR is right under 26k. My empty weight is 16k. I am right around 19k ready for a trip. My RV runs like a top, but just cannot handle those grades. The one right outside Bishop, CA is 6%, and I go up that grade in 2nd @ 4000rpm and right around 40. Can't even imagine what that grade would be like with a toad. That is my concern. I am sure it would be just fine in flats. Based on all of your inputs I will try.

I also agree that the cost differential between a base level diesel and a gasser may not be worth the cost based on usage and frequency. That is also part of my concern.

A diesel with an ISB is going to perform the same pulling the same loads in those types of grades.

If you want some more power in the hills, and you’re happy with your current coach, I would look into doing some tuning mods to it. You’ll get some more power and better drivability, and still have a nice pile of cash in your pocket vs. the cost of a diesel.

https://www.brazelsrv.com/

marjoa · 10-09-2018, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redapple

I go up that grade in 2nd @ 4000rpm and right around 40.

I think that's pretty much the norm for a coach like yours. I mean whether it's 18 wheelers, DP's or rigs like yours, they're just going to chug, chug, chug or in your case roar up the mountain.

Now I have read where some people here will tow till to they get near and approaching these steep grades. Then pull over, disattach the toad and then the passenger will drive the toad following the coach to the top.