Newmar 2022 Dutchstar 4369 versus 2022 Entegra Aspire 44W

[randystu]

I tried to reply to an old thread as I am new at this but the tread is old. It wouldn't let me reply, so I thought I would start another new one using more resent model years.


Here is my experience.


I have spent a lot of time looking at the Newmar line and the Entegra line. I have owned 2 Entegra's. An Accolade XL and a Reatta XL. I am now going to upgrade to an Aspire. Why?



Floor plan is very important and the Aspire 44W and the Dutchstar 4369 are the two I focused on. When I bought the Reatta XL I was considering a Ventana but Newmar literally on the day I went to place the order just raised their prices $30,000. Ouch! Bye bye Newmar. I researched price increases and from June of 2021 to February 2022 Newmar raised their price on the Ventana over $70,000. Entegra not near as much. They both got hit with the chassis increases but Newmar still had a tendency to up their prices much more and much quicker than Entegra. That is probably because of demand seems higher for the Newmar's so why not, right!


Lately I was looking very seriously at the 2022 Newmar Dutchstar 4369. It was the closest in layout as our 2022 Reatta XL 40Q2. I made a list comparing the difference between the Reatta and the Dutchstar. I think I had about 32 things that were better than the Reatta.



Now the Reatta is a great coach and I loved the floor plan. After we got that right for us, I looked at the safety, construction, and power. Hence the reason to move out of the Reatta. I needed better wall, roof, and floor construction, more power for going up hills and better engine brakes for going down hills. The Aspire and the Dutchstar have those things I want.



I have great relationships with Entegra and NIRVC. Fortunately NIRVC carries both brands, so I am happy to stick with NIRVC for my purchases.


Now back to the differences. After I did the comparison with the Dutchstar and the Reatta, I did a comparison between the Reatta and the Aspire. I came up with about 45 things better on the Aspire. More than the Dutchstar. To be fair, we were looking at a Dutchstar without the outside tv, no satellite, and no front tv. But factor those things in and there are still more things added to the Aspire than the Dutchstar.


Now add in the price and for a comparable used with low miles Aspire and Dutchstar, the price difference was about $100,000 more for the Dutchstar. Probably means the Dutchstar holds its value a little better? Add in new price and doing my best to customize the Dutchstar equally to the Aspire generates about a $88,000 difference MSRP.



Is it worth the price difference for getting basically the same thing? If a Dutchstar is such a better built coach why only a 1 year warranty?


Taking your motorhome to a reputable repair facility like NIRVC I found no difference in repairs and customer service. Entegra has treated me very nicely also.


So it came down to price, features, layout, and reputation, as it would with any manufacturer. The last 3 were so similar that it really came down to price.



We went with the Aspire. Much more bang for your buck, hands down.

[Archer2]

We traded an ‘06 Newmar Essex 4508 in late 2020 in on a 2021 Entegra Aspire 44W. We are full timers so we spent about 5 years in the Essex and now are approaching 2 years in the Entegra. My opinion so far is that the Essex was constructed with heavier, more residential-like cabinetry and the Entegra’s cabinetry is a little lighter weight. However it doesn’t really make any difference day to day. I also prefer the Dometic A/C-HPs vs the Coleman units.
In terms of useful technology like systems control and monitoring Entegra wins hands down. The Essex had the ePlex system which could be a nightmare.
Also, the Essex had an ISM 500HP engine vs the Aspire with a ISL 450HP but due to the Essex’s heavier weight I don’t really notice the difference.
The Essex was noticeably better insulated than the Aspire so especially on colder nights I definitely notice it in the bedroom.
I did not really comparison shop Entegra vs Dutch Star but your assessment of the difference in real world pricing is likely spot on.
Bottom line is that day to day living, comparing the ‘06 Newmar vs the ‘21 Entegra I prefer the Entegra even if the Newmar were price competitive but if I had to pay a premium for the Newmar I would buy the Entegra 10 out of 10 times.
Same thing with the Prevost vs Foretravel debate. If money was no issue, sure I’ll take the Prevost but a million bucks difference to get a million-mile vehicle that I will likely never drive even 150,000 miles, the answer is to each his own but I’ll be a big Nope.

[hogdriver]

Having owned two Entegras (Aspire & Anthem) and now a Newmar DutchStar 4369 I consider the DutchStar a better product albeit more pricey.

We enjoy the full wall slide, the flat tile floor, the electrically heated floors, the Oasis system over the Aqua Hot. I think the build quality is higher with fewer warranty issues.

Realistically, my previous 14 Anthem was a lemon. That was the year Entegra gave up quality control. Perhaps they are better now. My Anthem leaked from many places in the roof. The factory delivery started with an inop refrigerator that required pulling windows to change out. Floor tiles were cracked. The Aqua hot problems started with pudding like deposits in the fluid and devolved later into an every year repair. The dash AC never held a charge and was replaced piece by piece. You can say all of these were component issues but I saw all of them how the coach was put together.

On my 21 DutchStar I’ve had about 5 or 6 warranty repair items in 18 mos. You get what you pay for IMO.

[randystu]

Yeah with an experience like that i to would rather have a Dutchstar. But if you had gotten a good entegra would you feel the same? Time will tell with any RV. Since i am new, i had to go with the best bang for the buck.

[Cat320]

Originally Posted by randystu

.....i to would rather have a Dutchstar....

Me too.

[Dutch Star Don]

I would have no issue owning a Tiffin Allegro Bus or a Newmar Dutch Star. We looked at both and found things about both that were better than the other. For one, the Tiffins all seem to be painted the same dark colors. If you look down their exterior walls you can see the rippled walls. When it comes to interiors and the products used, Tiffin is much nicer inside. Newmar also fails on how it's bay doors close and feel, compared to a Tiffin.

For us, the deciding factor was a Newmar dealer a block away, tag axle in a 40' and the ability to customize, especially the colors.

This all gets me to Entegra. We looked at them many years ago and still look at the ones we see today. This will anger some, but for me, the exteriors of the Entegra line just looks cheap. Too much overwhelming plastic on the front and rear cap, and odd paint work.

Obviously, everyone has different tastes, or there would only be one brand of RV. For me, the outside appearance of a coach has to appeal to me as much as the inside and floorplan. I'm sure many will think my opinion is off base, but I won't buy something I don't like the look of.

[Cat320]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

....This all gets me to Entegra. We looked at them many years ago and still look at the ones we see today. This will anger some, but for me, the exteriors of the Entegra line just looks cheap. Too much overwhelming plastic on the front and rear cap, and odd paint work....

The D/W calls the outside paint "too glitzy."

[Winger2]

Having recently been bored. I went to check out a 22 Aspire. While there were features that I liked on the Aspire. I could not help but notice the cabinet quality and sizes. I looked at 3 layouts and I was not impressed, even though I always want an option when buying. Go with the DS

[randystu]

I think if money is of no consquence, the Dutchstar would be the way to go. But then if money is off no consquence, why not a Cornerstone or Essex.

Because money is a factor, and to be fair an important factor. So when you factor that in, the question becomes does the Dutchstar warrant a $80,000 to $100,000 price increase in value? If so, then what factors justify that price increase over a Aspire? Maybe that would make an interesting discussion.

[Dutch Star Don]

Originally Posted by randystu

I think if money is of no consquence, the Dutchstar would be the way to go. But then if money is off no consquence, why not a Cornerstone or Essex.

Because money is a factor, and to be fair an important factor. So when you factor that in, the question becomes does the Dutchstar warrant a $80,000 to $100,000 price increase in value? If so, then what factors justify that price increase over a Aspire? Maybe that would make an interesting discussion.

I agree with you on the price. Some feel that Newmar jacked up the prices to make the offering to Winnebago look more appealing. The Dutch Star is popular, but I think they're pricing themselves right out of the market. My coach, just three years later, would cost me another $185K. I'm sorry, there just haven't been that many improvements made. Even with inflation, they're overpriced. They may have dug themselves into a hole where more people move on to other brands, like you did.

[Archer2]

Winger2 and others mentioning the lighter weigh woodwork and cabinets in the Entegra (which is a fair observation) compared to Tiffin and Newmar has me thinking.
I noticed the comparatively lighter furnishings and trim in the Entegra compared to my Essex and considered it a plus, not a negative.
Designers of virtually every other kind of transportation like automobiles and airplanes will move heaven and earth to try to trim even just a few ounces of weight. The obvious reason is that the less weight that they need to accelerate and decelerate, the less energy is needed. When comparing vehicles having equal power, the lighter accelerate quicker, go faster, stop better, turn better and use less fuel.
So why is it considered a virtue in Motorhome design to use the same materials and construction techniques that have been used since, well forever? It would make a lot more sense if Motorhome interiors and exteriors were fairly dripping in carbon fiber and other high-strength, low weight modern materials.

[bentjm]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Winger2 and others mentioning the lighter weigh woodwork and cabinets in the Entegra (which is a fair observation) compared to Tiffin and Newmar has me thinking.
I noticed the comparatively lighter furnishings and trim in the Entegra compared to my Essex and considered it a plus, not a negative.
Designers of virtually every other kind of transportation like automobiles and airplanes will move heaven and earth to try to trim even just a few ounces of weight. The obvious reason is that the less weight that they need to accelerate and decelerate, the less energy is needed. When comparing vehicles having equal power, the lighter accelerate quicker, go faster, stop better, turn better and use less fuel.
So why is it considered a virtue in Motorhome design to use the same materials and construction techniques that have been used since, well forever? It would make a lot more sense if Motorhome interiors and exteriors were fairly dripping in carbon fiber and other high-strength, low weight modern materials.

Because diesel engines have a crap ton of torque and a few hundred pounds of weight makes no difference.

[hogdriver]

I agree w DutchStar Don. I think Newmar is pricing the DutchStars out of their mainstream “cash cow” business. I know prices are escalating in the current economy but if Newmar, Newell etc aren’t careful their glut of “boomers” with cash available and the future green movement against large RVs will result in them becoming another Beaver, Monaco, Holiday Rambler, NuWa…..and gone

I’d rather have more dependability, durability, repair ability, quality than glitz. Camping started in tents. Now we have mobile 5 star hotels. Time to think about origins and futures.

[Winger2]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Winger2 and others mentioning the lighter weigh woodwork and cabinets in the Entegra (which is a fair observation) compared to Tiffin and Newmar has me thinking.
I noticed the comparatively lighter furnishings and trim in the Entegra compared to my Essex and considered it a plus, not a negative.
Designers of virtually every other kind of transportation like automobiles and airplanes will move heaven and earth to try to trim even just a few ounces of weight. The obvious reason is that the less weight that they need to accelerate and decelerate, the less energy is needed. When comparing vehicles having equal power, the lighter accelerate quicker, go faster, stop better, turn better and use less fuel.
So why is it considered a virtue in Motorhome design to use the same materials and construction techniques that have been used since, well forever? It would make a lot more sense if Motorhome interiors and exteriors were fairly dripping in carbon fiber and other high-strength, low weight modern materials.

Because cheaper, smaller cabinets, look, feel and last like cheaper, smaller, cabinets.

Perhaps thats why I found the cabinet storage lacking in the Aspire. They made them so small. I was wondering where I could put a pot as there were none big enough for a decent pot. Making them smaller, cheaper and lighter, in this case is not a virtue